Alternate cross-class skill system

[Akhena]

A friend of mine want to add a house rule and I would like to have your opinion.

He would like to allow the characters to buy the untrained cross-class skills the same way you buy class skills. BUT the max rank remains the same [so (lvl+3)/2].

I'd like to point out that it's only for the untrained skills. So it would still be the double cost for all the others cross-class skills (such as knowledge for a fighter).

Personally I don't think this is a big abuse of the system but I wouldn't use it. What do you think ?

 

[Hollywood]

He would like to allow the characters to buy the untrained cross-class skills the same way you buy class skills. BUT the max rank remains the same [so (lvl+3)/2].

We do the same thing, but for all cross-class skills.. and guess what? It hasn't effected the balance of anything. Why? Simply because for most things the 2 points for one rank is too high on a limited skill point budget.

The rogue probably benefits the most, allows him to get ranks in Ride and one or two other skills that'd he'd have to either suffer at or do some silly multi-classing thats not within the character concept.

 

[Drawmack]

I don't like it from a logistics point of view.

The way that it works by core is that cross-class costs twice as much and maxes out twice as quickly. This way maxing out any skill, class or cross-class costs the same number of skill points. With his variant you can max out twice as many cross-class skills as you can class skills which makes cross class skills much more attractive and make low sp low class skill classes, like Fighter, much more powerful.

Another point under his system how do you buy a half a skill point?

For example: Ftr 5 core, int 10
Skill points to spend: 16
Class skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str)

Class Skills max ranks: 7
Cross-Class Skills max ranks: 4 (so I don't have to deal with half points under your friend's system)

Core: (no ability adjustments just ranks) Climb: 4, Ride 4, Handle Animal 2, Jump 2, Hide 2

Altered: (no ability adjustments just ranks) (no ability adjustments just ranks) Climb: 4, Ride 4, Handle Animal 2, Jump 2, Hide 2, Move Silently 2

So by fifth level the fighter has been able to take twice as many cross-class skills and he can max on his next level - once he figures out how to buy half a rank anyway. With the core sytem his only has one cross-class skill and he can't max that the next round. This example is applied to the class with the least skill points. Imagine the rogue who gets way more skill points. If you want to do something like this then I would suggest implementing a skill buy system (there are feats available for this) that will allow the person to make a cross-class skill into a class skill. Other then that I would leave it at everything halved.

 

[Hollywood]

The way that it works by core is that cross-class costs twice as much and maxes out twice as quickly <and so-forth>

Eep. I completely mis-read what he said and flip-flopped it. Our house rule simply states that ALL skills, class and cross-class, have the same max. skill rank, i.e. lvl + 3. Progression, etc. remains indentical to the standard rules.

This has worked fine and has yet to cause any problems. In theory, it allows a Fighter to say gain the same max. rank as a Rogue in Hide but at double the points. Since a Fighter gets only 2 + Int skill points per level, this won't ever happen.

Otherwise, I agree with Drawmack.

 

[Jens]

I think this is an excellentidea. Since it only affects skills which can be used untrained, it only makes characters better at 'mundane' endeavours: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Slowly, Perform, Ride, Scry, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Use Rope, Wilderness Lore. Most likely this will make Intelligence a more important stat since classes with poor class skills and few skill points (clerics, fighters, paladins, sorcerers in particular) will gain much more from their skill points.

Some consequences:
- Classes/characters with few skill points and little emphasis on skills will operate almost without regard to which skills are class skills and which are not. This may not be a good thing
- Characters will be more likely to take a few ranks in cross-class skills. A Paladin may take a few ranks in Gather Information, a Druid may take Move Silent, a Fighter may take ranks in Spot, etc.
- Ranks in 'good' skills such as Spot will be much more common - meaning that the rogues and rangers will have to invest more in Hide and Spot to stay ahead.
- As a side-benefit, I think this would be enough to satisfy those who want to give extra class skills to Fighters (Intimidate) and Sorcerers (social skills).

From a mechanics viewpoint, I think it is neat to have something between cross-class skills (low max rank *and* expensive ranks) and class skills (high max rank *and* cheap ranks)... it just seems odd that there is no intermediate. (Ok, so multiclassing means that you have skills with high max ranks but expensive ranks... but this suggestion fills in the other intermediate combination.)