Alternate penalty for raise dead? Instead of level loss?

[KenM]

I know how useful Raise Dead is. But in the last long term game I played in, my dwarf fighter died, 3 times. I got raised via a raised dead, 3 times. Lost a level becuase of it, 3 times. This got me very frustrated with the game. What was the point of leveling if you were just going to lose them when you get raised. One step forward, two steps back I thought. I want to have it used in my game, but what do you people think is a decent penalty for the raise dead type spells without level loss?

 

[Jack Simth]

Definately a house rules question, but if played carefully, the level loss isn't too terribly bad (as long as it doesn't happen too terribly often) as lower level party members get more xp for the encounter - while a big setback, it's not unrecoverable.

That said, if you want something else, try draining a flat amount of XP - say, 5000 for Raise Dead, 2500 for Ressurection, and 0 for True Resurection.

 

[Caliban]

I know how useful Raise Dead is. But in the last long term game I played in, my dwarf fighter died, 3 times. I got raised via a raised dead, 3 times. Lost a level becuase of it, 3 times. This got me very frustrated with the game. What was the point of leveling if you were just going to lose them when you get raised. One step forward, two steps back I thought. I want to have it used in my game, but what do you people think is a decent penalty for the raise dead type spells without level loss?

You could give them an XP debt that they have to pay off. They don't actually lose their current level, but takes them longer to get to their next level.

 

[Kelleris]

I've toyed with the idea of giving raised characters a negative level that they cannot remove by any means. It goes away on its own after a year and a day.

I know how useful Raise Dead is. But in the last long term game I played in, my dwarf fighter died, 3 times. I got raised via a raised dead, 3 times. Lost a level becuase of it, 3 times. This got me very frustrated with the game. What was the point of leveling if you were just going to lose them when you get raised. One step forward, two steps back I thought. I want to have it used in my game, but what do you people think is a decent penalty for the raise dead type spells without level loss?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Personally, even from my days playing as a child, I've never liked any mechanic that costs XP. (I grit my teeth and bear it today for item creation, because I haven't found anything else that works.) To me, XP doesn't equal life force; XP equals memory. You learn stuff, you get better. Unless a PC loses their memories, I don't do level/XP-draining attacks in my game, unless they're not permanent (like enervation). Those I chalk up to temporary weakness.

So, alternate penalties for raise dead? Have you considered going back to the previous editions' use of Constitution loss? If you simply specify that it cannot be corrected through restoration and similar spells, you've got a fairly nasty price to pay, what with everyone's Con now impacting their hit points and Fortitude saves.

Alternatively, make it a role-playing cost: the individual is now beholden to some power--either the god of death, or the god whose cleric raised him--and must undertake some task on their behalf. Sure, you can't balance a mechanical effect with an RP penalty in the rules, but that doesn't mean you can't do it in an individual campaign.

 

[IronWolf]

That said, if you want something else, try draining a flat amount of XP - say, 5000 for Raise Dead, 2500 for Ressurection, and 0 for True Resurection.

This is the way I would go.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Oh, one other...

Raise the monetary cost of casting the spell. A lot. Yes, this initially penalizes the caster, not the individual who died, but the hoops the raised character has to jump through to pay back his colleague can be difficult. (And if he refuses to do so, well, let's see what happens the next time he needs raising...)

 

[Tar-Edhel]

I know how useful Raise Dead is. But in the last long term game I played in, my dwarf fighter died, 3 times. I got raised via a raised dead, 3 times. Lost a level becuase of it, 3 times. This got me very frustrated with the game. What was the point of leveling if you were just going to lose them when you get raised. One step forward, two steps back I thought. I want to have it used in my game, but what do you people think is a decent penalty for the raise dead type spells without level loss?

No XP for the combat in which you died is a decent enough penalty in my book (if you want a penalty of course since the RAW say that you do get experience points when you die). I don't see the point in penalizing for death.

Especially when the DM is fond of the 'Return to' Campaigns

DMG p. 42; Making new characters

"But avoid situations where a player would be punished to stick with an existing character rather than creating a new one"

After the 2nd or 3rd TPK (or close enough) in RttToEE, we decided that new characters came back at the level the previous (dead) one was. Given that and the passage above, we also decided to forget about the level loss when raising a character.

My DM is not happy with that ruling but it was either that or face a player mutiny...

 

[Tharian]

I do like that thought of an XP pentalty to pay off before reaching your next level.

But isn't death supposed to be a penalty anyway? After all, wouldn't the possibility of not being raised be enough to warrant paying a level as a penalty instead of not coming back ever again.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Point of Con is good-- maybe 2 for raise dead, 1 for resurrection, and nothing for true resurrection.

Of course, it's easier to raise base stats in my games than it is in most.