Alternate Protection from Arrows

[Three_Haligonians]

I had an idea,

In theory, Potions of Protection from Arrows should be very handy items. However, I find them never used because DR X/magic is practically useless by mid-level and it is useless by high level.

So I was wondering how much would it cost to make new potions that granted Protection from Arrows just with a different DR?

You could have DR 5, 10 and 15 in the /silver, /cold iron, /adamantine variety. You could even make alignment based DRs.

What is the best way to go about making such potions? Technically they would be wonderous items since they don't actually copy a specific spell (so more like an Elixir of Sneaking, etc).

Just brainstorming here really, let me know what you think (even if you think it's a bad idea).

EDIT: This may in fact, be a House Rule thread; it's about making custom magic items but it is also about creating new mechanics (i.e. spell effects) so I am unsure..


J from Three Haligonians

 

[Rackhir]

I had an idea,

In theory, Potions of Protection from Arrows should be very handy items. However, I find them never used because DR X/magic is practically useless by mid-level and it is useless by high level.

So I was wondering how much would it cost to make new potions that granted Protection from Arrows just with a different DR?

You could have DR 5, 10 and 15 in the /silver, /cold iron, /adamantine variety. You could even make alignment based DRs.

What is the best way to go about making such potions? Technically they would be wonderous items since they don't actually copy a specific spell (so more like an Elixir of Sneaking, etc).

Just brainstorming here really, let me know what you think (even if you think it's a bad idea).

EDIT: This may in fact, be a House Rule thread; it's about making custom magic items but it is also about creating new mechanics (i.e. spell effects) so I am unsure..


J from Three Haligonians

Well Prot Arrows isn't supposed to make you immune to medium-high cr threats. It's to protect you against the 300 archers shooting at you with normal arrows.

Since you are talking about a new spell (to make into a potion), let's look at what else is already here. The obvious follow on is Stoneskin at 4th lvl which gives you DR10/adamatine. So one that only protected against arrows with the same DR, should be about a level or two lower. Which would be 3rd since the Prot Arrows is second.

Now Stoneskin's main prevention against abuse is the cost 500, gp in diamond dust per use. If you didn't want to have a cost like that, I would probably bump it up to 4th, since you are avoiding the main limitation on Stoneskin. Knocking the cost to use it down to say 250gp in diamond dust, would seem reasonable for keeping the spell at 3rd.

As far as multiple variations on DR/whatever, I would be leery of permitting DR/Silver/Col Iron/Misletoe, simply because it can give the players (or NPCs) a massive advantage. I'd say pick one and that's it.

Yeah this probably should be in house rules though. But I don't think it's doing any harm here.

 

[frankthedm]

In theory, Potions of Protection from Arrows should be very handy items. However, I find them never used because DR X/magic is practically useless by mid-level and it is useless by high level.

Then the DM is not using enough low level mooks. If the only orc / hobgoblin archers that fire on you have half a dozen levels, then yes, the spell is questionable. If on the other hand that 6th level hobgoblin sharpshooter is leading three 3rd level hobgoblin sergents with sixty first level hobgoblin archers, the autohits will make the spell usefull.

 

[akbearfoot]

At 9th level, I don't see fighting 60 CR1 critters being very fun... That just turns the fight into a 'be loaded with AE attacks, or waste an hour of real life time fishing for 2+s on your attack rolls'. Even if they kill a player, it won't be a heroic death, and you're players are a lot more likely to feel insulted or picked on.


In my experiences, players -hate- wasting game time killing crap that stopped being worth XP 3 levels ago. It's about the same thing as having the god-like NPC with unhittable AC coming in to 'play' with your party....That's un-fun.

Anytime you have to spend round after round rolling anything but a 2 to hit, or round after round whiffing because you didn't roll a 20, the game stops being worth the expenditure of time, and definitely not worth the $50 you spent to order out pizzas for the group.

As to the OP, I agree that protection from arrows sucks as written. It should have been re-written as DR 5/- with no damage cap or maybe even DR 10/- with the same damage cap as stoneskin. When they got rid of the DR X/+Y mechanic they should have changed it....Wind wall is FAR superior to it.

 

[frankthedm]

At 9th level, I don't see fighting 60 CR1 critters being very fun... That just turns the fight into a 'be loaded with AE attacks, or waste an hour of real life time fishing for 2+s on your attack rolls'. Even if they kill a player, it won't be a heroic death, and you're players are a lot more likely to feel insulted or picked on.

And I find it very fun to face hordes of foes, far more than have top deal with a majority foes who suspiciously gain levels and experience almost as fast as I am. I did not gain 9th level to give all my foes 5th level and to have 1st level mooks suddenly disappear. I took great cleave for a reason and if all the 1st level orcs go extinct, it better be because I killed them all!

 

[IamTheTest]

At 9th level, I don't see fighting 60 CR1 critters being very fun... That just turns the fight into a 'be loaded with AE attacks, or waste an hour of real life time fishing for 2+s on your attack rolls'. Even if they kill a player, it won't be a heroic death, and you're players are a lot more likely to feel insulted or picked on.


In my experiences, players -hate- wasting game time killing crap that stopped being worth XP 3 levels ago. It's about the same thing as having the god-like NPC with unhittable AC coming in to 'play' with your party....That's un-fun.

Anytime you have to spend round after round rolling anything but a 2 to hit, or round after round whiffing because you didn't roll a 20, the game stops being worth the expenditure of time, and definitely not worth the $50 you spent to order out pizzas for the group.

As to the OP, I agree that protection from arrows sucks as written. It should have been re-written as DR 5/- with no damage cap or maybe even DR 10/- with the same damage cap as stoneskin. When they got rid of the DR X/+Y mechanic they should have changed it....Wind wall is FAR superior to it.

Except the guy who took Great Cleave.

I think it can be fun as long as its told in a fun way. Me vs. 60 mooks can be humdrum but an epic battle against overwhelming forces could be heroic.

 

[Rackhir]

Guys could we please try to keep things vaguely on topic? While it's an interesting debate as to what people enjoy in terms of threats/challenges, it doesn't really have anything to do with "Improved Protection From Arrows". You can always start a thread in the main forum it's much better suited to that sort of discussion.

 

[Felix]

I always relied upon Wind Wallhttp://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/windWall.htm to keep projectiles away from me at upper levels. It's more restrictive than Protection from Arrows, but it does protect you from all conventionally-sized projectiles, magical or not.

Also, Leomund's Tiny Hut is a brilliant defensive spell for mid-levels. It restricts mobility, lets your enemy know your general location, and cuts off line-of-sight to friendlies outside the hut, but it provides total concealment to anyone within while leaving the occupants' lines of sight completely unaffected. This means any projectiles will have enormous difficulty hitting, and targeted spells of any level will be impotent against the occupants.

 

[Felix]

More spells of 3rd level or higher to protect you from projectiles:

Major Image and similar spells, because these can provide total concealment for you. How long that concealment will last will be up to your DM's definition of "interact with the illusion", and how shooting an arrow through the illusion relates to it.

The already mentioned Stoneskin, though this can get expensive.

Wall of Fire should have a good chance at burning up any projectiles shot through it, and denies line of sight as well. It does the same to you, though.

Illusory Wall works well because it never becomes transparent even with a successful save, but it does have a very limited effect, and so is likely only going to be useful indoors.

Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum makes a good siege-breaking spell, as you can shroud your troop deployment with its generous area of effect and make the enemy unable to communicate well with their front lines. Its 10-minute casting time makes it impractical for common tactical use, though.

If you use a readied action, you can use the Violent Thrust maneuver of Telekinesis to hurl the approaching arrows (max 15) at one target (within 10ft/caster level). This will work if a group of archers all fires simultaneously at you (or people near you) after you have readied. Not terrifically useful, but neatly cinematic, eh?​

At higher levels it's less about having defenses up to survive an attack, and more making sure you don't get targetted in the first place; anything that denies line of sight will ruin even the highest-level archer.