am i doing this right?

[krupintupple]

let's say the PCs topple a CR 2 encounter. they loot a masterwork greatsword, a potion of sheild of faith +2 and 200 gp; all of this equals the CR2 encounter reward of 600gp, if i'm correct (350 + 50 + 200 = 600).

now, the PCs take said items into to town to divvy them up, and sell what is not wanted. they sell the greatsword and turn its original 350gp value into 175gp and divide that up - here's where the issues start to come up.

one of my players argues that in the above situation, the PCs really only took in 425gp of loot, and not 600gp, as items only sell for half. he furthermore states that since most items will be sold, the PCs are continually being short-changed in their looting, unless they get fairly lucky with my rolls and choices.

i explained its part of the random nature of the game, but on average, everyone is able to get a fair share and that furthermore, it's only a guideline and not an absolute: i don't reimburse for money spent on potions or scrolls - that's a conscious choice and while not everyone has a use for a masterwork greatsword, selling it is a conscious choice.

he wasn't so much angry as curious, but we agreed to continue along my way as opposed to me giving them extra money when they're, as he says, 'shortchanged'.

so, am i doing this right, or does anyone have any commentary on this?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've never been fully sure, but I tend to interpret treasure value based on what it's worth to sell back. Thus, if the PCs actually find something among the pile they really like, they're effectively getting it for half price. Technically they are either way, but if you're counting all items at the full value, there really is no difference, at least in terms of metagame knowledge. I mean, would you rather get a masterwork club (300 gp), or a gem worth 300 gp? Under your system, the gem's always worth twice as much, unless one of the players occasionally uses clubs and masterwork is a step up, in which case they're about even. I prefer to make items found a bargain over the standard gold and gems, to encourage players to pick up nifty items they'd normally pass on at the store (keightom's ointment, slippers of spider climbing, heward's haversack, etc...) and occassionally give them a shiny new upgrade. if they know that if the item would have existed as pure gold in the same amount with which they could've just bought it anyway... I think you get the idea...

*I used clubs as an example strictly because it's an easy base price to remember (0 gp). This would apply to any weapon.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I mean, would you rather get a masterwork club (300 gp), or a gem worth 300 gp? Under your system, the gem's always worth twice as much, unless one of the players occasionally uses clubs and masterwork is a step up, in which case they're about even.

Excellent point, fwiw.

I played in a few games where all the treasure was currency and gemstones. It took a bit of desire to bend the suspension of disbelief to get there - but it worked out really well.

In general, though, I usually give out treasure in terms of resale value. And, at each level I do a collective party wealth analysis (as opposed to a individual character wealth analysis). If the party wealth is about average, cool. If the party wealth is a bit high, then the next level treasures are reduced a bit. If the party wealth is a bit low, the treasures get a bit more robust. So long as the DM is keeping track of party wealth levels at each level - it should work out okay.

And ... [To the OP] you might want to rethink that policy about not reimbursing for spent things like potions and scrolls. Yes, they are conscious decisions to use. But the rules are formed on an assumption of party wealth. If the party only uses a few of these things, then it doesn't really matter. But a party that makes heavy use of these kinds of things will find themselves hosed at some point. I know ... I know. It's their decision. But the rules are made the way that they are, too.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, assuming they'll encounter npcs or classed monsters every once in a while they'll get a lot more than indicated by the treasure tables. I definitely wouldn't count only half the gp value of (magic) items to decide if their wealth is appropriate for their levels.

If they think they don't get their money's worth, I'd recommend they craft their items themselves.

 

[krupintupple]

Well, assuming they'll encounter npcs or classed monsters every once in a while they'll get a lot more than indicated by the treasure tables....

i would tend to agree with this thought. they seem to have a love for 'final fantasy' level-ups - randomly wandering the local areas known to be dangerous in hopes of good loot and xps (a habit i'm trying to break them of), so understandably, random animals and prowling predators don't really keep their cache of goods on them.

that being said, if they eventually find some bandits or a classed monster, they usually tend to even the above out with a generous treasure trove.

 

[Asen]

I always figure that merchants will try and shortchange the heroes. That's basic human (or humanoid) nature, so they can just accept that. I dole out treasure according to the book and what my DM gut tells me.

 

[Runestar]

You may need to makeup for this shortfall by increasing the amount of treasure your party gets in subsequent adventures. Try to have them understand that it is not distributed in fixed amounts. Sometimes they get more, other times less, but it should all even out in the long run.

This was a problem I found with the wealth guidelines. Especially at higher lvs, though the PCs were looting tons of gear, these were for most part vastly inferior to what they already had (because of the skewed npc wealth tables), so they ended up just selling them all. This meant that they were still seriously shortchanged at the end of the day, which required me to literally throw chests of gold in their face just to make up the numbers.

I would say that this is more of an art than a definite science. You need to correctly anticipate which loot the PCs will likely sell, and what they will decide to hold on to. In your case, why did they sell the masterwork greatsword? Because no one in the party used greatswords?

 

[Keith Robinson]

one of my players argues that in the above situation, the PCs really only took in 425gp of loot, and not 600gp, as items only sell for half. he furthermore states that since most items will be sold, the PCs are continually being short-changed in their looting, unless they get fairly lucky with my rolls and choices.

i explained its part of the random nature of the game, but on average, everyone is able to get a fair share and that furthermore, it's only a guideline and not an absolute: i don't reimburse for money spent on potions or scrolls - that's a conscious choice and while not everyone has a use for a masterwork greatsword, selling it is a conscious choice.

To be frank, I think he's totally misunderstood the nature of treasure. There is absolutely no correlation between the value of items that an NPC has and their monetary value to the PCs. The 'treasure' as set out in the MM 'reflects how much wealth that creature owns' (quoted directly from the MM), and not 'how much gold the adverturers will aquire from that creature'. By the RAW, it's the wealth by level chart that matters - are your players roughly at the level as outlined in that chart? If you're going by that, then that is all that matters. If not, then it's whatever system you are following.

Giving your players extra cash to 'make up' for a perceived 'shortfall' is a bad idea IMO, and I think in this case your players have hoodwinked you. They should earn their loot!

 

[Jonathan Drain]

A masterwork sword is 315gp worth of treasure. If you can't use that, resale price is a consolation prize. It's Dungeons & Dragons, not Shopping & Sales.

In earlier editions, treasure wasn't for selling. Items didn't have buy or sell prices, and if you found something you couldn't use, it had no value. You see its influence in Diablo II, I think: players regularly ditch items rather than carry everything back like a miser.

 

[irdeggman]

one of my players argues that in the above situation, the PCs really only took in 425gp of loot, and not 600gp, as items only sell for half. he furthermore states that since most items will be sold, the PCs are continually being short-changed in their looting, unless they get fairly lucky with my rolls and choices.

He is incorrect and as pointed out doesn't understand what the treasure value actually represents.


Put it to him this way - they just got a masterwork great sword for free (which most 2nd level PCs will not be able to afford). I find it difficult to believe that some PC in the party couldn't use a masterwork greatsword. No barbarian PCs? Remember that since it is masterwork - it can eventually be made magical.

Now if you are not "adjusting" the treasure that the opponents have to more or less match the party, then you might need to start looking a little better at that. {Shouldn't be something that happens all of the time, but it should be a consideration - and is a DM's perogative and responsibility. I mean you don't want to keep having treasure that no PC can use.}

Most treasure found should be usuable by the PCs in one way or another.