Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8261399" data-attributes="member: 87792">So the rogue can sneak past your average monster but struggles with the experts. Meanwhile a ranger occasionally stumbles - but can waltz past the experts and can guide the entire party past average monsters.If the rogue specs full face then the ranger's greater flexibility will crush them. Spells are really useful.Sure they will. And if they do they don't have expertise in stealth or thieves tools. They can do anything but only get expertise to a few skills.Indeed. But skills aren't everything. A wis of 14 on a fey wanderer (I've seen 16 Wis on rangers just as I've seen 16 Cha on rogues) is almost a match for expertise.But you talk about skills? The Tasha's ranger has two more languages which closes that gap (and languages are another type of face skill that cost a skill slot). Expertise is slightly better than a wisdom bonus but only slightly. So when you take languages into account you're getting the ranger more or less matching the rogue even before having to go above and beyond.This is a matter of interpretation and we have competing tweets from Mearls and Crawford on the subject of what climb speed actually is intended to mean (damn fuzzy rules) but being able to climb fast is not as I understand it the same as having a climb speed. Having a climb speed to me (and to Mearls) involves being natural when climbing and not having to make rolls when others would (it's not spider climb that allows for along ceilings without rolling). Thieves are just faster.A ranger is by default very good at stealth without PWOT. A rogue is very slightly better at stealth. But a ranger with PWOT makes Batman seem clumsy and obvious; a rogue just wants to be Batman.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8261399, member: 87792"] So the rogue can sneak past your average monster but struggles with the experts. Meanwhile a ranger occasionally stumbles - but can waltz past the experts and can guide the entire party past average monsters. If the rogue specs full face then the ranger's greater flexibility will crush them. Spells are really useful. Sure they will. And if they do they don't have expertise in stealth or thieves tools. They can do anything but only get expertise to a few skills. Indeed. But skills aren't everything. A wis of 14 on a fey wanderer (I've seen 16 Wis on rangers just as I've seen 16 Cha on rogues) is almost a match for expertise. But you talk about skills? The Tasha's ranger has two more languages which closes that gap (and languages are another type of face skill that cost a skill slot). Expertise is [I]slightly [/I]better than a wisdom bonus but only slightly. So when you take languages into account you're getting the ranger more or less matching the rogue even before having to go above and beyond. This is a matter of interpretation and we have competing tweets from Mearls and Crawford on the subject of what climb speed actually is intended to mean (damn fuzzy rules) but being able to climb fast is not as I understand it the same as having a climb speed. Having a climb speed to me (and to Mearls) involves being natural when climbing and not having to make rolls when others would (it's not spider climb that allows for along ceilings without rolling). Thieves are just faster. A ranger is by default very good at stealth without PWOT. A rogue is very slightly better at stealth. But a ranger [I]with [/I]PWOT makes Batman seem clumsy and obvious; a rogue just wants to be Batman. [/QUOTE]

Verification