D&D 5E Am I missing something with Favored Foe?

[Pickaxe]

Summary: My interpretation of Favored Foe is that it is worse than Hunter’s Mark, but I’ve seen some comments that make me wonder if I’ve missed something.

Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything includes Favored Foe as a replacement for Favored Enemy. Basically, you can add +1d4 damage to one attack per turn for 1 minute, and you can use this a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, refreshed after a rest. The feature also requires concentration, so it cannot be used in conjunction with Hunter’s Mark. Crawford clarified this in a recent tweet:
To me, this seems to produce an unsatisfying choice:

If you take FF instead of FE, you get a benefit at 1st level, when you don’t have any spells. But, once you have access to Hunter’s Mark, you can have +1d6 to each of your attacks for an hour for the cost of a spell slot. If you are doing TWF, or if you have Horde Breaker, or for any ranger with Extra Attack, HM is clearly better. When is a ranger using FF once they have multiple attacks and access to HM? At best, FF seems like a backup option for when you have other uses for spell slots. At worst, it’s never used after 1st level. In which case, why not stick with FE and gain some exploration and social interaction benefits?

Have I missed something in evaluating FF vs. HM? When I raised the issue in the aforementioned Twitter thread, I got a response from the OP that I didn’t understand:


“You can theoretically stack up 3d4 vs 1d6 so it's a win overall...unless they run.”

How does the ability allow you to stack 3d4? Is he suggesting that you can use the ability three times simultaneously? You only have two uses of it at first level before taking a rest, and I would think that using the ability a second time ends concentration on the first use.

Anyone have insight on this?

Axe

 

[Krachek]

Ability don’t stack in DnD.
yes, Hunter’s mark is strictly better than Favored foe.
Do favored foe is better than Favored enemy? not obvious.
Do the ranger was in need of a damage dealing ability? no.
is the ranger class cursed? Sure!

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I have no idea what B. Dave Walters is getting at with the “stack 3d4” comment. Make no mistake, favored foe is straight-up worse than Hunter’s Mark. The advantage it has is that it doesn’t cost you a spell slot or a bonus action. Think of it as a “diet Hunter’s Mark” that you can still use if you want to save your spell slots and bonus actions for something else. Is that an unsatisfying choice? Probably for some folks, but YMMV.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Yes, FF < HM. That's by design.
It doesn't cost a spell slot, and is there if you run out of spells (or don't want to use a slot) or if you lose concentration. It is a backup, regularly available, that means:
(a) if you like HM, you won't hesitate to use it because there's a fallback (good)
(b) if you don't like HM, you can still get a bonus on damage and cast other spells (good)
(c) if you are in a tense situation (long, unable to rest, losing concentration checks) you are locked out of some extra damage (good).

It seems a perfectly reasonable substitute for a non-combat related ability: players that want the combat perk can choose it, and you are ahead regardless of what's happening in play.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Bear in mind, too, that the alternative to selecting FF isn't HM. It's Favored Enemy, which is so narrow that it does virtually nothing even when you're facing the selected creature type.

Once you reach 6th level, FF also deals 1d6 damage. That closes the gap considerably.

 

[jgsugden]

Favored Foe:

• Does not require a spell slot.
• Does not require a bonus action to use.

The best way to think of it is a backup ability that they can use if they either lack the spell slot (which they do at first level, and may lack at higher levels if they use them all up), or do not wish to give up a bonus action to gain the bonus damage. That will give you some utility at lower levels, but will be a rarely used mechanic at higher levels.

I have a Gloom Stalker 5, Divine Soul 5, Cleric of Order 1 Glasya Tiefling Ranger I just rebuilt using Tasha's Rules. As she has great uses for her bonus actions (quickened spells, misty step, healing word to grant reaction attacks), this is just a little add on damage she gets to add without using an action to make it happen. Sure it is often only there for the first attack (or maybe the first attack for two rounds), but it is better than nothing.

 

[Pickaxe]

Thanks everyone for the responses. The bonus action is of course an additional cost for HM.

 

[Don Durito]

It's better if you're actually trying to do two weapon fighting because of that bonus action.

It's useful in Tier 1. You don't lose as much damage compared to Hunter's quarry as it might at first appear because a) combats don't usually go that long, so the extra attack is meaningful, and b) while you could do quarry damage twice a round you won't always hit with both attacks.

 

[Great Gonzalez]

Summary: My interpretation of Favored Foe is that it is worse than Hunter’s Mark, but I’ve seen some comments that make me wonder if I’ve missed something.

Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything includes Favored Foe as a replacement for Favored Enemy. Basically, you can add +1d4 damage to one attack per turn for 1 minute, and you can use this a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, refreshed after a rest. The feature also requires concentration, so it cannot be used in conjunction with Hunter’s Mark. Crawford clarified this in a recent tweet:
To me, this seems to produce an unsatisfying choice:

If you take FF instead of FE, you get a benefit at 1st level, when you don’t have any spells. But, once you have access to Hunter’s Mark, you can have +1d6 to each of your attacks for an hour for the cost of a spell slot. If you are doing TWF, or if you have Horde Breaker, or for any ranger with Extra Attack, HM is clearly better. When is a ranger using FF once they have multiple attacks and access to HM? At best, FF seems like a backup option for when you have other uses for spell slots. At worst, it’s never used after 1st level. In which case, why not stick with FE and gain some exploration and social interaction benefits?

Have I missed something in evaluating FF vs. HM? When I raised the issue in the aforementioned Twitter thread, I got a response from the OP that I didn’t understand:


“You can theoretically stack up 3d4 vs 1d6 so it's a win overall...unless they run.”

How does the ability allow you to stack 3d4? Is he suggesting that you can use the ability three times simultaneously? You only have two uses of it at first level before taking a rest, and I would think that using the ability a second time ends concentration on the first use.

Anyone have insight on this?

Axe

Hey I found this thread a little late, but looking over the description on wikidot, I think I know how FF stacks.

“The first time on each of your turns that you hit the favored enemy and deal damage to it, including when you mark it, you increase that damage by 1d4.

You can use this feature to mark a favored enemy a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.”

So the way I interpret it is that as long as you’re concentrating on FF and are hitting the same opponent you can start stacking the extra d4 damage. Does that make sense?

 

[jgsugden]

Hey I found this thread a little late, but looking over the description on wikidot, I think I know how FF stacks.

“The first time on each of your turns that you hit the favored enemy and deal damage to it, including when you mark it, you increase that damage by 1d4.

You can use this feature to mark a favored enemy a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.”

So the way I interpret it is that as long as you’re concentrating on FF and are hitting the same opponent you can start stacking the extra d4 damage. Does that make sense?

It is not the way the ability works. "increase that damage" refers to the normal damage of the attack as "that damage", not the last damage you dealt. If it meant that, there would need to be wording to handle situations in which your weapon changes between attacks, etc..