Amber - Zelazny

[Broken Fang]

Ok...my question for those of you who have read the books or played the game is can you think of anyway someone could have Logrus w/o having Shapeshifting? For those of you who might come up with an idea here is the problem:

Logrus tries to domiate the person controlling it...often forcing you to change shapes (hence why you need Shapeshifting). I need a way to dominate the Logrus w/o it. Both I and the DM think Shapeshifting stinks, but he is not ready to modify the power yet.

 

[Fast Learner]

Apparently Oberon cannot shift in the new prequel The Dawn of Amber (written by John Gregory Betancourt with the ok of Zelazny's estate, even though Zelazny said he didn't want anyone to do that), though he has the Logrus within him. Maybe that book explains why he can't shapeshift.

Other than that you could certainly say that some kind of pattern imprint was overriding the ability to shapeshift. Isn't that what the basic deal with the Amberites was, or did they simply not have the Logrus?

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think Oberon probably could shapeshift; isn't that how he disguised himself as Ganelon (or whatever Corwin's sidekick's name was).

The Pattern override Fast Learner mentioned sounds good too. Also, from the Amber novels it didn't seem clear that one had to be able to shapeshift in order to use Logrus. I can imagine all kinds of weird effects that navigating the Logrus might have and shapeshifting could just be one of them.

 

[Fast Learner]

I think Oberon probably could shapeshift; isn't that how he disguised himself as Ganelon (or whatever Corwin's sidekick's name was).

Sorry I wasn't clear: I was referring to his apparent inability to shapeshift in this "pre-history" book. He definitely could by the timeframe of Nine Princes.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Sorry FL, my mistake there. Is the prequel good? And is it first series good or second series good?

 

[Fast Learner]

Haven't read it, and based on the reviews I think I'll just skip it. One of the complaints in a review I read was that Oberon couldn't shapeshift for some reason.

 

[Broken Fang]

The books, IMO, don't cover Logrus very well. In the game Pattern overrides Logrus. Pattern being what is is makes it difficult to Shapeshift, though I to think Oberon had Shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is required for Logrus as its chaotic nature requires the sudden changes to survive while assaying it. Can you think of a way to assay Logrus w/o Shapeshifting?

 

[2WS-Steve]

Since assaying the Logrus is so... chaotic... I'd design the game such that assaying the Logrus had a wide range of effects based on the particular person who navigated the Logrus. Shapeshift would be one of them but permanent mutations might be another, or becoming part-goat/part-human, or developing insane psychic powers, or developing cybernetic enhancements that don't fail in low-tech shadows, and so on. I think that would help explain the way chaos lords from the first series looked and behaved.

 

[Deadguy]

Yes, I agree with 2WS-Steve that you could live up to the chaotic nature of the Logrus and let it affect some people differently. The one that immediately came to mind when I read your question was someone very good at wielding the Pattern, who rather than changing physical shape internalises the changes - the shapechanging that results in entirely mental. Of course, such a person might seem to suffer from extreme personality shifts, but that might be fair game for Amber!

 

[MerricB]

Depending on the Shadow you are in, Shapeshifting may be more or less difficult.

I prefer the view that Shapeshifting is a prerequisite for controlling the Logrus, but if you want to eliminate that prerequisite, go for it! (Perhaps just a strong will is needed to abort the changes, rather than going with the flow!)

Cheers!