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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zaruthustran" data-source="post: 1117689" data-attributes="member: 1457">appearance: not worth a statIn D&D height, weight, and age are randomly determined or (more often) simply chosen by the player. I treat appearance the same way. If you want your character to be hot, he's hot. If you want him to be nondescript, he's plain. Whatever. The orc your character is butchering doesn't care if his butcher has plucked eyebrows.In my opinion the game effects of appearance can and should be rolled into Charisma. After all, appearance is included in the definition of Charisma*. Good example of this is any of those teen "makeover" movies. You know the ones: shy goofy looking girl gets done over by friends/relatives/fairy godmother and suddenly everyone is adoring her and she's so beautiful. It's the exact same girl--same "Appearance" stat--the only difference is attitude: the dumpy girl transforms into a hotty because she becomes aware of her natural looks, gains confidence, and works it. In other words: she uses her Charisma. And her Masterwork clothes and makeup.I may give a circumstance modifier due to appearance in certain situations (like a Bluff roll to seduce someone), just like I'd give a modifier due to tall height (like an Intimidate roll to... intimidate someone, or a jump roll to reach a high ledge). These minor game effects don't merit full stats (and necesarily, the creation of skills and game mechanic modifiers for that stat). After all, the PHB doesn't have a stat section for shoe size or hair color; you just make that stuff up and move on.You said earlier that your real life experience tells you that appearance matters. I agree that appearance can make a difference IRL. But I posit that Charisma matters a lot more and even influences and defines what would be a high appearance stat. Look at Viggo Mortensen (Aragorn)or Harrison Ford or Russel Crowe or Tom Hanks or Adrian Brody. These guys are *not* beautiful--compare to Wil Smith or Orlando Bloom (Legolas) or Johny Depp. But they're the definition of charismatic, and that makes people perceive them as beautiful. They work it.In the same way, there are plenty of very beautiful people who just don't get anywhere in life because they're vapid and dull. They wind up in cheap Cinemax movies or soulless marketing/PR gigs. They work it not. The lesson I take from that is that appearance can give a small bonus or penalty but charisma (and connections) are much, much, much more important.Bottom line is that appearance may be important in real life but is not so important in D&D (a game that is, after all, about killing monsters and taking their stuff). That's why I just let players chose their appearance, and only occassionally give circumstance modifiers based on those choices.-z *Though, of course, appearance is only a small component of Charisma. The 3.5 SRD says "Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting." The 3.0 SRD says "Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. "Taking those two together, I view Charisma as a stat that mainly measures self-confidance/self awareness.</blockquote>

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