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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 3401261" data-attributes="member: 3424">Actually, I wasn't responding directly to what you wrote, although it did spark off the train of thought that resulted in my post.In my post, I outlined one problem faced by players: an interface which theoretically accepts an unlimited variety of inputs, but which only recognizes a small subset of them as valid, and noted that a menu-driven or command-driven interface could help solve that problem, but that it was not an ideal solution.The problems you identified in your post are different, and have more to do specifying what is meant by a specific "menu choice" or "command", and with trying to encourage players to step out of their menu-driven or command-driven mindsets. I think the solution to this is for the DM to accept both what you refer to as low-detail and high-detail propositions, and for successful low-detail propositions to point towards high-detail propositions.For example, you could set your games up so that a Search check is simply a visual inspection. However, a successful Search check will uncover additional clues or hint at a course of action that the PCs could take to discover more. Using the painting example, on a DC 20 Search check (a low-detail proposition), you could tell the PCs that there seems to be something behind it, or that it is slightly tilted, or that there are scuff marks on the wall that indicate that it had been moved repeatedly. The PCs are thus at liberty to manipulate it further (possibly setting off a trap or hazard), check it for traps (another Search check), or leave it alone. However, if a PC specifically stated that he was moving the painting (a high-detail proposition), he would find the hidden object (or set off the trap) automatically.Similarly, for the example of the cluttered room, or the trapdoor hidden behind straw, a PC with a high Search check should realize that there might be some things that are still hidden because the straw or the clutter is in the way.I doubt that there are many players who will demand that their DMs be entirely command-driven or menu-driven, but I think that the majority players expect to derive some benefit from the basic menu options or commands that are available to them, even if it is just a couple of clues and hints to the high-detail propositions that the DM wants. If I remember correctly, Ultima III had just such an approach. It had a special "Other Command" option that allowed the player to key in any word (much like those text-based RPGs), but the player could discover the words that actually worked through the established commands, e.g. by "Look"ing at a book or sign or notice, or by "Talk"ing to an NPC.</blockquote>

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