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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3401303" data-attributes="member: 22779">I can see both sides of what Celebrim and Firelance are discussing.&nbsp; And, really, I think it boils again down to the loss of DM power.&nbsp; 3e does take power from the DM, IMO.&nbsp; I think most of us agree with that.&nbsp; A DM in 1e or 2e had far more authority over many actions than a 3e DM.&nbsp; Take our painting issue again from that perspective.&nbsp; In the absence of a &quot;command&quot; in the form of a search check, the players must perform tasks based on what the DM feels is adequate.&nbsp; A player might say, &quot;I look behind the painting&quot; and the DM might interpret that as &quot;I move the painting&quot; thus setting off the trap.Arguments around the table are made of this.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Because the DM is interpreting any action that lies outside the codified rules, that interpretation can lead to some issues.&nbsp; Honestly, I think the best course lies somewhere between the two extremes.&nbsp; The players should have certain &quot;key words&quot; that they can use to manipulate the environment without worrying about miscommunication.&nbsp; OTOH, it becomes far too formulaic if you cannot move outside of that list of keywords.D&amp;D has always had key words.&nbsp; &quot;I attack&quot; &quot;I search for traps&quot; &quot;I search for secret doors&quot; &quot;I listen at the door&quot; &quot;I cast detect magic&quot;.&nbsp; 2e expanded the list somewhat with non-weapon proficiencies.&nbsp; 3e has expanded the list again with skills (and possibly feats).But, I don't think any edition has closed off the ability to move beyond the list.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 3401303, member: 22779"] I can see both sides of what Celebrim and Firelance are discussing. And, really, I think it boils again down to the loss of DM power. 3e does take power from the DM, IMO. I think most of us agree with that. A DM in 1e or 2e had far more authority over many actions than a 3e DM. Take our painting issue again from that perspective. In the absence of a "command" in the form of a search check, the players must perform tasks based on what the DM feels is adequate. A player might say, "I look behind the painting" and the DM might interpret that as "I move the painting" thus setting off the trap. Arguments around the table are made of this. :) Because the DM is interpreting any action that lies outside the codified rules, that interpretation can lead to some issues. Honestly, I think the best course lies somewhere between the two extremes. The players should have certain "key words" that they can use to manipulate the environment without worrying about miscommunication. OTOH, it becomes far too formulaic if you cannot move outside of that list of keywords. D&D has always had key words. "I attack" "I search for traps" "I search for secret doors" "I listen at the door" "I cast detect magic". 2e expanded the list somewhat with non-weapon proficiencies. 3e has expanded the list again with skills (and possibly feats). But, I don't think any edition has closed off the ability to move beyond the list. [/QUOTE]

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