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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 3412089" data-attributes="member: 3192">That's not a bug, that's a feature.  It's about challenging the players.  If you're a player, you want to become better.  If you're the ref, you want your players to become better.  If they can beat Type VI demons at 5th level, more power to 'em.  Literally.  The rewards should be commensurate with the challenge.  Adhering strictly to suggested wealth guidelines and/or leveling characters whenever the ref "feels" like it shortchanges the players.  Inexperienced players start believing they are entitled to certain a wealth and speed of advancement, while experienced ones relent in futility at ever succeeding beyond normal expectations.If they get to keep whatever they find, if they advance more quickly because of their own ingenuity, they will learn they control their fortunes, not some arbitrary guidelines.I mentioned in another thread I don't put magic shops in my game because "the players would never bother with dungeons again".  In the same way, if I followed the suggested wealth guidelines or advanced PCs to "keep pace with the adventure", the players would just go through the motions and wait for the goodies.  The mechanical incentives to be better players are removed.>>>tangent[sblock]Monty Haul doesn't really come from campaign worlds where tons and tons of magic is owned by the players.  That's a setting concept perfectly valid and up to the group.  If you want vorpal swords at 1st and artifacts at 10th, go for it.  As long as the wealth is consistent in the world you shouldnt' have a problem.  The actual definition goes back to when character level and character wealth were more representative of player ability and success.  If the players' abilities were averaging around 8th and a TPK occured, you could relatively expect the same group of players to advance up to 8th again quite quickly.  It was getting to 9th that was harder.  What I mean is: with 1st level characters, they should be capable enough to handle challenges far above their level simply because of personal experience and ingenuity.  They know the game and they know how to win ...to a certain extent.Monty Haul came in when these symbols of success: wealth, high level, magic items, etc., were given away without little to no challenge to inexperienced players.  Sometimes people even tried to pass themselves off as great and powerful players by having obscenely powerful PCs.  Even if they had memorized and mastered the rules, it wouldn't take long to see they had never mastered the game.  It was only the trappings of power they saw, not the skill behind them.[/sblock]</blockquote>

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