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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 3435156" data-attributes="member: 29398">Right...time to dive in to what's so far been one of the better discussions I've seen here. (let's hope I can help keep it that way!) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Somewhat topic by topic, then: (disclaimer: I have no experience with anything before AD+D other than running various B/X modules) - Scaling: 3.x scales at higher levels much better than any previous edition, no question about that.  That said, the point raised that the characters never seem to make any net progress because the foes' powers rise to match their own is valid too; that the perceived lack of randomness make it almost seem like prepackaged fun.  There's a middle ground somewhere for this, I'm sure... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As for designing areas with greater or lesser challenges, it's easy enough to "steer" the characters to areas they can handle: "There's a Black Dragon lives in those mountains, accordin' to the tales...big mean feller.  Rumour has it the King has to pay 'im off every summer to make sure 'e stays up there and don't come down 'ere.  Ain't seen nobody go up there that didn't think they could handle 'im...and ain't seen none o' those as did come back either.  You sure you want to try your luck?" - DM vs. Player power: 3.x allows players to know too much, too soon, leaving as the only real mystery the DM's world (and that Goes Away too if you're running a pre-gen setting e.g. FR, Greyhawk, etc.)   I absolutely agree with whoever it was that said new players who don't necessarily know what they're doing are the best players to have...to them, it's all a mystery, and the joy is in the discovery and learning; about the game, the world, and their characters.  Older editions, for all their other flaws, did a better job of lengthening the learning curve by keeping more info restricted to the DM...and putting it all in arcane prose that seemed mysterious even when it wasn't. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> - Rule modifying and DM workload: one thing not yet mentioned is that if a given DM does modify the game to suit his-her own tastes, s-he is by extension going to become more familiar with (and personally involved in) the game and thus be able to run it more efficiently through being able to remember a greater percentage of the rules (usually, the ones s-he changed) and having to look less things up in mid-game.  Older editions tended to be modified more, giving DMs that personal buy-in; now, it seems DMs are being asked to simply memorize rules that they did not write.  Net result: the workload now is about the same, but less personal...if that makes any sense...and thus less fun. - Searching: that whole bit about looking behind the painting shows up the differences between editions far better than anything else I've seen.  That said, if I ever ran a 3.x game I'd still ask for more specific actions than "we search, take 20" just on principle. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Lanefan</blockquote>

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