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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3442455" data-attributes="member: 2067">Bingo. I think the best kind of 4e would be one that refines the 3.5 system where it's sticking points are deep. I'd like it to be simple with the *option* for complexity. I'd like to see both vertical and lateral advancement (you can soar up in levels or you can achieve a lot of different abilities at about the same level). I'd like NPCs and PCs to follow the same rules...but I'd like to be able to simplify without loosing some of the impact of diversity. I'd like to see pick-up-and-play modules, and I'd like to see 316 page books on world-building.I want it all and I want it all now. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm not entirely sure I understand the criticism in light of C&C. You seem to be saying that everything should follow a skill system, but it kind of does already in 3e: you roll a d20, add your modifiers (skill bonus, attack bonus, ability bonus), compare the total against a DC (or an AC) and resolve the action (dealing damage or accomplishing a use of the skill). Casting spells is a different system, but Caster Level (for SR or for increasing spell damage and effect) work according to the same model. For certain skills that are niche-protected (like attack bonus or caster level) you need to take another class, and you seem to defend C&C's use of the same tactic above. Both systems have things you can't increase within your own class.So, yeah, I think D&D could learn quite a bit from C&C, but I also think C&C tends to throw out the baby with the bathwater in many cases. Does the game need 6 saves? Heck, for simplification, it could probably do with just a *single* save. I don't see how finding a middle ground between complexity and simplification would lead to decreased minis sales by default. In many situations, they just need to standardize various combat actions that we're already familiar with -- the grapple, the disarm, the trip, the sunder...all could follow various "stunt"  mechanics pretty easily, rather than using four or five different sub-systems for each. Attacks of Opportunity, similarly, just need to be kind of standardized -- give each critter an Opportunity Attack score that, if it beats the target's AC, they can deal damage whenever certain stunts or actions are performed in reach...Those are just some off-the-head examples. You can always sell more add-ons and more books and more minis, even with a simpler system.</blockquote>

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