An idea for a broken Fighter class

[Li Shenron]

Ok, this morning I am really in the mood for subversive proposals

I was just thinking that the Fighter class lacks of interest at higher levels, and in general has a little in special features. Apart from WSpecialization, GWFocus and GWSpecialization, there is absolutely nothing that a member of another class can't have. Yes, there are a lot of juicy bonus feats, but the good side of the Figther is just the quantity...

For example, the spellcasters have their own unique spell lists and other abilities; the Barbarian has the Rage and the DR (UD and TS in common with the Rogue); the Bard has spells, BMusic, BKnowledge; the Ranger and Paladin and Monk all the special abilities; the Rogue has SA and specials. Everyone has unique things, and not a few. Figther just has bonus feats and access to those 3 exclusive feats.

I don't think the Figther sucks! But it seems to me that this way, the Figther is the best class to pick up some levels for the BAB and feats, and maybe for the HP, but after level 12 for example there is little reason left to go up to 20th. Who needs so many feats? Probably not more than half of the Figthers go on single class... in my two gaming groups the Figther is THE MOST popular class in multiclassed PCs, but no one is single class for longer than 4-6 levels (ok, we're still 3.0).

How to make it more attractive to get the next level of Fighter? How to avoid multiclassed always having an EVEN number of Ftr levels (since ODD levels don't give the bonus feat)?

I am trying with the following way to fill all levels with something:

1 Bonus feat
2 Bonus feat
3 Favored Fighting Style
4 Bonus feat
5 Exotic Weapon Proficiency
6 Bonus feat
7 Favored Fighting Style
8 Bonus feat
9 Exotic Weapon Proficiency
10 Bonus feat
11 Favored Fighting Style
12 Bonus feat
13 Exotic Weapon Proficiency
14 Bonus feat
15 Favored Fighting Style
16 Bonus feat
17 Exotic Weapon Proficiency
18 Bonus feat
19 Favored Fighting Style
20 Bonus feat

Favored Fighting Style (admittedly inspired by AD&D )
Choose one of the following fighting styles: one-handed weapon style, two-handed weapon style, weapon and shield style, two weapons style, thrown weapon style, projectile weapon style. The Fighter gets a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls when fighting in that style. If the same style is chosen more than once, the bonus stack (so that a 19th level Ftr who always chose the same style has a +5 competence bonus).

Exotic Weapon Proficiency
Just pick EWP for an exotic weapon of your choice. This is not as good as more bonus feats: I think that past the first and maybe second EWP, the other ones become redundant.

Anyway, consider that if used such a class, at the same time I will find something to fill the "gaps" in the levels of other classes too.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Well, obviously, what you have here is stronger than the PHB Fighter. The extra EWPs are fine, I've done something similar IMC (we redid weapon proficiencies altogether, and Fighters get them faster than everyone else), but the Fighting Styles? VERY strong. +1 to attack rolls with all weapons within a style easily overshadows feats like Weapon Focus. I'd say this is stronger than a Bonus Feat, so you're probably better off making Feat chains that do something similar (which already exist for many of these styles), or make Prestige Classes (like the Duellist) that specialize.

Anyway, I agree that Fighter ends up being a front-loaded class (everyone takes 2, 4, or 6 levels of it) and has a problem with its odd levels, but I don't think what you have here will solve that. Like you pointed out, EWPs are useless after the first one or two, so now you'll see people stopping at the Fighting Style levels.

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, obviously, what you have here is stronger than the PHB Fighter. The extra EWPs are fine, I've done something similar IMC (we redid weapon proficiencies altogether, and Fighters get them faster than everyone else), but the Fighting Styles? VERY strong. +1 to attack rolls with all weapons within a style easily overshadows feats like Weapon Focus. I'd say this is stronger than a Bonus Feat, so you're probably better off making Feat chains that do something similar (which already exist for many of these styles), or make Prestige Classes (like the Duellist) that specialize.

Yes, I am afraid too it might be too good. It's not granted that every Figther would go for the +5 in one style only, I was kind of thinking that she would rather aim to a +3 in a melee style and +2 in a ranged style, but an archer could instead be more tempted to focus in one only.

Weapon Focus would be worth less compared to this, but would still increase the attack bonus further, and grant access to WSpec... I am sure the Ftr would still take WF in at least one weapon.

...maybe switching the FFStyle and EWP levels could help? This way all FFStyles bonuses will be 2 levels later, and the top would be +4 only. One more EWP won't make much difference...

 

[Macbeth]

I like the idea, but it seems to be a little too strong, and part of the idea of a fighter is that it is a "baseline" class, no special abilities, it is what you want it to be. This still might be a nice addition to my campaign, just not as a replacement to fighter.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Well, not world shaking, but I have a minor addition I'm going to use that should do the trick. 3rd, 9th, 15th 1/day ea gain a re-roll for a damage roll. 5th, 11th, 17th, 1/day ea gain a re-roll to hit. 7th, 13th, 19th, 1/day ea gain ability to make foe re-roll to hit. Not too powerful, but it makes them that much more potent in comparison to the "other" fighter types.

 

[reapersaurus]

I like the idea.

Perhaps the Favored Fighting Style is a bit too much, but mostly, I think it's a welcome addition.

Heck, this kind of power-up to the fighter-types is exactly what I'd prefer to play - a system that encourages melee types to get a palpable benefit over sitting back and casting.

I think these kinds of powerups should be granted to all melee types, not just the fighters. Any non-spellcasting class. Have you looked at a Paladin and compared to a fighter? You can't say he's stronger in combat.... those abilities are mostly fluff (and dependant on being a boring ole straight-paladin-class).

But I'm the guy who believes that fighter types should do more damage in combat than spellcasters, so what the heck do I know?

 

[wolff96]

Perhaps I'm in the minority opinion here, but I think you're approaching the problem from the wrong side.

The fighter is bland because the toughest feat to get is Whirlwind Attack.

Want more pure-class fighters? Enhance the feat chains. Make more really high-level feats.

In other words, don't change the class, make the special ability (feats) more useful.

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NOTE: These are off the top of my head and may be totally unbalanced. I'm not looking to argue game balance of these particular feats, just give ideas of the level of power that high-level feats should provide that would make a fighter-type worthwhile.

Take your Weapon Familiarity feat and give it a pair of pre-reqs. Maybe Weapon Specialization in a weapon of that style and some other appropriate feat (Power Attack for 2H'ers, Improved Shield Bash for Sword & Board, and Two-Weapon Defense for 2wfs?). Then tack on a BAB requirement. OR if you want others to be able to take it, make that Weapon Focus. Fighter bonus feats give the advantage, making a fighter more likely to gain the style. Then offer an Improved Version for +2 and a Greater Version for +3 or +4. Scale the BAB accordingly, making it require something in the neighborhood of a 16 or 18th level fighter to take the best version.

How about something like "Rolling Attack"? Requires WWA, Quickdraw, and BAB 14 and allows the fighter to do a partial charge, making one attack to each creature that he passes along his movement? He still takes AoOs from all but one opponent, but Mobility and his own AC should help with that...

Or Defensive Shell? Requires Heavy Armor Proficiency and Toughness (or Endurance) and grants an extra six points of Dodge AC when the fighter is using Heavy Armor and Fighting Defensively, instead of the normal 2.

Perhaps you can come up with a feat that allows a fighter "Defender's Eye" or something like that. If you study an opponent for a couple of rounds, you can get major bonuses to avoiding his/her/its attacks.

Maybe a feat called Payback that allows a fighter to make an instant AoO against any opponent that misses his AC by 10 or more (and works on EVERY attack that comes the fighter's way, including iteratives). Sounds ridiculous until you realize you need a Dex 17+, +16 BAB, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, and Mobility...

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I think making the current fighter's bonuses more valuable -- with tough to acquire feats that require a LOT of pre-reqs and high BAB or ability scores -- will have more people playing fighters.

Sure a dedicated Barbarian, Ranger, or Paladin might be able to take ONE of these new feats if they focused on it, but only the fighter could take several of them. And that kind of power increase might actually make a pure-class fighter worthwhile.

 

[AeroDm]

My initial thoughts would be to suggest that you create Fighter only feats that have higher pre-reqs to delay them to the later levels.

Of course, we all realize that adding _anything_ improves the fighter and technically imbalances the class. With that in mind, I'd say have at it. Make it as cool as possible.

I personally prefer simple solutions, so I would mix and match a bit to hopefully come up with a really cool yet not too powerful solution. Perhaps I'd grant weapon styles, exotic weapon profs, exotic armor profs (adding in some exotic armors), and even that reroll a damage that someone suggested. With that many abilities people will be less powerful (as opposed to +5 to longswords) and more varied. Varied = style. Style = fun.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I think giving free Exotic Weapon Proficiencies is cool for a Fighter, and makes a lot of sense, but it's either useless at high levels or frontloading at low levels. It doesn't work well for simply encouraging a Fighter to continue in his class.

Better high-level Fighter feats is a good idea, and making some of them Fighter-only would make the class more attractive at higher levels-- but I don't think they make a whole lot of sense, logically. What special maneuvers could a Fighter learn that a Ranger, Barbarian, or Paladin would have no access to? The Fighter's extra expertise is represented in the bonus feats (and to a limited degree, Weapon Specialization.)

I like the Fighter variants from Dragon #310. Perhaps you could take some of those special abilities and give them automatically at higher levels? Some of those seem a bit stronger than feats, and more Fighter-devoted. The Weapon Master's to-hit/to-damage bonuses with the weapon of his choice make sense, too, but not every Fighter should be a specialist.

 

[Waylander]

I'm very tempted to give fighters Armour Specialisation, at 12 level, in place of the current bonus feat (Armour Specialisation is from the Warmain class from Arcana Unearthed ).