An idea for defense bonuses...

[Andor]

I was reading through some of the newer books and noticed a trend where several powers give the same bonus to AC and Reflex saves, obviously drawing a connection between these two portrayals of nimbleness. Which led me to wonder, would there be any real downside or potential abuse to replacing the +Dex bonus aspect of AC with +Reflex save. Obviously this well rasise the average acs a few points but I find that desireable. It will also tend to help poorly armoured weenies like monks and swashbucklers more that Clerics and Fighters also (IMHO) desireable.

Now clearly this idea would work better with fractional bonuses, to prevent cheesemonkeying for super ac bonuses. (Monk 1, Rogue 1, Ranger 1, Paladin 1, Swashbuckler 1) = +10 to AC....

But aside from that, and an increase in the value of cloaks of protection, what am I not seeing?

 

[Stalker0]

Well...how about the fact that a 6th level monk now recieves an additional +6 to his AC, while the poor fighter only recieves +2. If nimbleness is so great, what's the point of putting on all of that heavy armor? It slows you down, gives you big penalties to saves, is fairly expensive.

And it makes the ranger the best class in the game imo. Now he has the AC of a fighter, with the full attack bonus, some feats, favored enemy, skills...man there's nothing he can't do

 

[AbeTheGnome]

i use reflex as an AC bonus in my game. i think it makes a lot of sense. the AC calculation now looks like this:

10 + REF base save + Dex bonus + Shield Bonus = AC (now referred to as Defense)

Armor Bonuses now function as pure DR, while armor check penalties now apply to Defense. This becomes a trade-off: do you want to be hit more often but suffer less damage, or vice versa?

it should be noted that permanent magic items (especially ones that increase AC) are all but nonexistant IMC. this is necessary because the core books use the magic item "crutch" to make up for the fact that class-based defense is not an option (unless you use UA). every mid-level character is expected to have an amulet of natural armor or whatnot. no so in my game.

also, monk PCs are not an option IMC, because that Far Eastern flair just doesn't suit the setting. if i used them, i would probably eliminate their dodge bonuses. the ranger... well, that lack of armor proficiency hurts him, because DR becomes very valuable. and the favored enemy bonus is so specific that it rarely applies. when it does, hell, more power: that's what it's for.

this system has worked very well for the group. it seems more intuitive. if a character's combat expertise increases, why should it only apply to offense?

thanks,
abe.

 

[starwed]

if a character's combat expertise increases, why should it only apply to offense?

Well, it does increase, even in the current system. That's what increased hp represent; the ability to turn what should have been a mortal blow into only a glancing one. (Well, that might be only one interpretation of hp, but its a pretty popular and sensible one.)

I do like the idea of a defense bonus to AC, but I wouldn't tie it to Reflex saves. Systems like d20 modern and StarWars d20 just add an extra column to each classes progression for Defense; that makes the mechanic easier to balance.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

i don't really think of hp like that, even though i know it refers to it in that way in the corebooks. i believe those defense bonuses are available for fantasy classes as well, in UA. you can find the rules at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm

i don't use this system because i think it makes more sense to tie defense bonuses to reflex rather than armor proficiency. what the heck does reflex mean, anyway?

 

[starwed]

I take reflex to mean exactly that; raw reflexes. A defense bonus should represent some sort of combat training, not just instinctive reactions.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

I take reflex to mean exactly that; raw reflexes. A defense bonus should represent some sort of combat training, not just instinctive reactions.

should "instictive reactions" increase as part of a career path? does a rogue have more "instinct" than a wizard or a fighter? i don't think base save scores reflect inherent ability as written. ability scores, however, do. the DEX ability seems to represent inherent agility and natural "reflex." the reflex save, unituitive as it may be, seems to represent combat training, if for no other reason than that it is tied to class level increases.