An odd idea, combining OD&D and 3e

[Ace]

Crossposted to Dragonsfoot

My biggest gripe about 3e has got to be the prep time

I find game is insanely complex to prepare. and really hate that fact

OD&D OTOH is pretty fast roll stats, pick class, do class stuff. Go!

I was thinking about combining the two of them---

Each person picks a class from the approved list. I will use one of the handy class creation tools for OD&D for this and make a nice list in addition to the old standards

This will help do away with multi-classing nonsense and keep things quick.

No Feats or PRC's--- They just aren't needed. Now a will make a few feats class abilities ala Set Spear and Lance Charge in the Cyclopedia but thats about it

Second: Race=Class. There will be several options for each race, Elves might get this Arcane Archer, Bladesinger, Mage, Priestess whatever

Third: I will use the Third edition skill system. You pay a fixed tarrif on EP based on the skills you have

Fourth: 3e spells. I like the spells list although some of the OD&D spells are great too. The mix will give me plenty to use

Now I know this won't give as indepth characters as 3e (Frex these excellent write ups of Conan




but what they do is make the game faster

Other things to go, formal AOO's, Differing Armor types and all that jazz. If I have a ranged touch to deal with I will just use the caster level as a bonus -- easy

Things to keep-- 3e save system, 3e BaB (this works better than THAC0 imo)

Things to add--Defense (from Wheel of Time)

What do you all think? Best of all worlds or Endless Lving Hell or somewhere in between

 

[jgbrowning]

What do you all think? Best of all worlds or Endless Lving Hell or somewhere in between

I think you should do whatever you want. There's a good chance that the only reason OD&D seems less complicated is that your familiar with it. Here's a few tips for 3E.

1. only use the rules you want, and if you and your players are happy, thats all the rules you need.

2. don't use anything outside the core books until you're a better judge of what works and what doesn't.

3. if something goes wrong, blame Piratecat. Its probably his fault anyway.


joe b.

 

[Darrin Drader]

NOOOOO! Don't do it. Its a huge mistake! You must use every published rule that's been deemed official by WotC whether you or your players like it or not. If you aren't playing by WotC's rules, you aren't playing D&D!

*Grumbles and walks away annoyed muttering, "Didn't anyone listen to anything Gary Gygax used to say?"*

 

[Melan]

-Duh! Wrong thread!-

 

[Ravellion]

Why would you play a fighter as opposed to a paladin when you do not have feats in your game?

I can see what you meant though... I think certain things, such as feats, are pretty important for a lot of people.

That said, you could simulate them with skills. If you have, say, 5 ranks in cleave, you can cleave once a round, 10 ranks twice a round. 4 ranks longsword specialization (fighter exclusive skill) +1 to hit, 8 ranks +1 to hit and +2 damage. Options are endless. (Hmmm... skill threshold based combat maneuvers...)

Rav

 

[Ace]

Why would you play a fighter as opposed to a paladin when you do not have feats in your game?

I can see what you meant though... I think certain things, such as feats, are pretty important for a lot of people.

That said, you could simulate them with skills. If you have, say, 5 ranks in cleave, you can cleave once a round, 10 ranks twice a round. 4 ranks longsword specialization (fighter exclusive skill) +1 to hit, 8 ranks +1 to hit and +2 damage. Options are endless. (Hmmm... skill threshold based combat maneuvers...)

Rav

Actually I was going to give each class a limited pool of abilities

FREX- A knight would get Spirited Charge and a couple of other abilities

a fighter would get some of the feats as a class ability

 

[tieranwyl]

Its not an odd idea Ace. I always liked Basic D&D better than AD&D because there was less preparation time.

Feats add too much customizability. At some point, the DM has to decide that NPC's just can't be as detailed as PC's. This may reduce their effectiveness against PC's. Just axe the feats.

Reducing the round action types to four in 3.5 doesn't cut it in IMO either. They should keep partial round action and standard action and get rid of the other types.

In 3E there are only 3 save categories. This is nice.

Axe multiclassing. Its a pain trying to figure out which skill is a class exclusive skill, and it can only be so high if one class has it but the other doesn't, etc.

I think the skills in 3E would be better if they were percentile instead of d20.

BAB is ok.

3E monsters are way too detailed. Maybe 3.5 will fix that. Why do they have to be so detailed when they are just going to be dead in a few rounds?

3E skills, feats and monsters together take way too much reference time. Any one of them alone might be managaeable but together they interupt game flow. Its not going to get any better either. There are people still shouting for more rules and details that are in there second favorite games (damage reduction for armor types, etc.)

You could decide to just play Basic D&D. If you could find anyone else to play with you.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Your idea sounds great! The lack of feats would keep stuff easier...I'd chuck skills too save for the ones that are class abilities. I'd let the Thief keep Search, Disable Device, etc.

 

[Henry]

My opinion is somewhere in between, but leaning towards "endless hell."

In my experience, prep time is directly related to familiarity, so I can say that I have never required that much time to ready either a character, or a session (as DM). I have learned tricks over the past two years that have sped up my prep time immeasurably.

I can definitely see a hybrid OD&D / 3E system work, and work well, (the saving throws are an immediate steal!) As a base game, however, the d20 System was created because the majority of players wanted both unified mechanics and the ability to customize their characters and NPC's in myriad ways. The end result was the d20 System as it stands.

It seems that for such to work, you need to go to a class ability system, turn certain feats into these. You need to either have a TON of classes to allow for individuality, or the option to branch off into optional skills at certain points. (For instance, have either archers and fighters, or have one fighter class that has a forked ranged or melee path.)

Things to keep:

1. saves
2. skill system - just keep the "higher is better" because in my mind the OD&D system of "some rolls low, some rolls high" is a backwards step.
3. Base attack bonus - THACO and TO HIT CHARTS NEED TO DIE.
4. Armor class goes up - just goes hand in hand with killing THACO.
5. eliminate racial bonuses to ability scores, and pad the other abilities into the classes (Dwarves are basically fighters, but get all sorts of bonuses to fighting underground and against goblinoids, and some stonecunning abilities instead of specialization and cleave and improved crits)
6. Keep a unified XP chart, because the different levels of the classes always led to problems in balancing encounters for me

These are just a few of the ideas. I would like such a system for those times when we only have a couple of hours to play D&D, and would like to break out characters and bust heads! UNfortunately, my players have been playing 3E now for almsot three years, and would sooner endure beds of nails than play an older version. Unfortunately, it also means that they aren't willing to play D&D for short periods of time either - they prefer extended character tweaking - not a fault of 3E, but just the mindset they have when playing D&D.

 

[Ace]

Your idea sounds great! The lack of feats would keep stuff easier...I'd chuck skills too save for the ones that are class abilities. I'd let the Thief keep Search, Disable Device, etc.

I am leaning twoard "Keep the skills" A good skill set makes a lot of characters possible

My basic idea is to have a bunch of classes, things like Fighter -- Mage-- Cleric--Thief-- and some non standard ones FREX Archer, Rogue (Ftr/ Thief) about 40 I would say

This way instead of just a Dwarf class you will have 4 or 5 dwarf listings

Dwarf Warrior, Battle Rager, Runecaster, Tunnel Scout, Master Crafter

same with Elves,

Basically you would roll stats, pick your class, pick some skills (I haven't figured out how to do this yet) Pick a gift (something special about you, you only get one ever so choose wisely) Outfit and go

If you are a spellcaster -- add another step, choose your spells

NPC classes would be limited to one-- I don't know what to call it but it can level up.

My idea here was to have level titles for NPC's, something like Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Expert, Master, Grandmaster

Monsters would be cut back to attacks,damage, powers, AC, HP, Move

An example

Dragon
HP 100
AC30
4 attacks claw/claw/bit/tailslap +4 Initiative +x BAB 10d4 damage (or whatever)
Specials -- Fireblast 1/3 rounds x damage, immune to fire, reach (he gets a free shot in) spells, Dragon Fear (vs 6hd) Spot Invisble
Spells list----- xxxxxx
Spot Trouble +20 (he doesn't need many skills just one, who cares what his other skills are)

This is a bit shorter than a standard stats block but still gives me all the stuff I might want.

If/When I post more of this I will put it in house rules