an odd idea on how to revise magic classes for a low magic setting

[Nyeshet]

An idea occurred to me a while back, when I considered how to deal with the power of casters in a lower magic setting. The obvious choices - raising buff spells, teleport style spells, raise dead style spells, and a few divination style spells each up a level - is not always neat, and it doesn't change the fact that magic becomes really important really fast once you are past around level 11-15. But what if casting itself were delayed?

Changes would be needed for balance, but as long as I am changing these, why not change some other aspects of the classes, streamlining them a bit?

The below is my (current) results. It is a work in progress that will likely undergo some more changes, but the major change to note is that casting is limited to 6th level spells unless a PrC is taken. The PrC grants higher levels at the cost of number of spells per day per level, and it also reduces skill points, bab, and the grade of hit die, and it slows the gaining of the specials by half. Anyway, without further ado . . .



Magus / Priest / Druid / Bard / etc

HD: d6
BAB: medium
Saves: Will Good, one Medium save (based on caster type), one Poor save
Skill Pts: 4 + Int
Prof: Simple & Racial Weapons, Light Armor, no shields

Spells per Day
LV 0 . 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 Specials
01 1 . - . - . - . - . - . - Special [Lore]
02 2 . - . - . - . - . - . -
03 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - . -
04 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - . - Special
05 3 . 2 . - . - . - . - . -
06 3 . 2 . 1 . - . - . - . -
07 3 . 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - Special
08 3 . 3 . 2 . - . - . - . -
09 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . - . - . -
10 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . - . - . - Special
11 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . - . - . -
12 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . - . -
13 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . - . - Special
14 5 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . - . -
15 5 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . -
16 5 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . - Special
17 5 . 5 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . -
18 5 . 5 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1
19 5 . 5 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 Special
20 6 . 5 . 5 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2

Note that a Special (or Bonus feat, yet to be decided) is gained each level that the character does not gain a new spell per day. I believe a Lore style ability makes since for the first level - the style of which should be based upon the type of magus (Know [religion] equivalent for Priests, Know [arcane] for Wizards, Know [nature] for Druids, Know [geography and local] for bards, etc).

I chose simple weapons in part because of idea that simple weapons represent those weapons anyone might be able to use with little or no real training. Racial weapons would also be included in this. I considered not allowing Light armor, but considering the lower magic setting, they will need all the help they can get. Also, I find it difficult to believe that Cold Weather clothing should not be considered equivalent to Padded armor, and thus I would allow any class in a non-tropical setting to have proficiency in Light Armor. Shields were not included, however.

The specials should vary. While leaving it open as bonus feats is possible, I tend to think that things such as Lay on Hands and some Turning equivalent should be available for priests, Wildshape and Animal companions for Druids, perhaps heritage feats or paths equivalents for Sorcerers, and just general magic feats for Wizards. Bards could have their bardic music based feats for these feats / specials, perhaps. I would probably work it out as follows:

Bard Specials: (1) Lore of the Road, Counter Song, (4) Fascinate, Inspire Courage +2 (7) Inspire Competence +2, Suggestion (10) Inspire Greatness, Inspire Courage +3, (13) Song of Freedom, Inspire Competence +4, (16) Inspire Heroics, Inspire Courage +4, (19) Mass Suggestion, Inspire Competence +6.

Druid Specials: (1) Natural Insight, Wild Empathy, (4) Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, (7) Wild Shape 1/day (medium & small, animal), (10) Wild Shape 2/day (large, humanoid), Timeless Body, (13) Wild Shape 3/day (tiny, plant*), (16) Wild Shape 4/day (huge, elemental), (19) Wild Shape 5/day (diminuative, vermin*). (* can choose vermin at 13 and plant at 19, if they wish). Upon gaining wild shape (humanoid) - the equivalent of a thousand faces - they also gain Timeless Body, for obvious reasons.

Priest Specials: (1) Holy Lore, Turn Undead, (4) Lay on Hands, (7) Divine Health, Timeless Body, (10) Divine Grace, (13) Remove * or Divine feat, (16) Remove * or Divine feat, (19) Remove * or Divine feat. (* choose amongst the following: disease, poison, curse; use 10 Lay on Hands pts to remove it or 4 LoH pts to allow for a new save with a +2 aid another bonus from the Priest) Among the divine feats would be one that allowed use of LoH pts for the restoration of ability damage (but not drain, at least not without another feat). Either way, the cost in LoH pts should not be cheap.

Sorcerer: ?? should be heritage related, perhaps a path for draconic, fey, fiend, celestial, aberration, elemental, undead, etc. rather like an intermediate bloodline in some ways, perhaps.

Wizard Specials: (1) Arcane Lore, (4+) magic feats (crafting, familiar, meta-magic, etc)

Note that specials that have uses per day would have those limited to the caster level. Bards only have 2 uses of Bardic music at second level, and clerics only have 5 turning attempts available at 5th level. This makes feats that grant 3 more uses (of either) notably more potent.


Some might seek more, higher power. But such focus and intensity upon a single goal comes with a price (in hd, bab, saves, skill pts, etc). For such there is the following:


Archmagus, High Priest, Lord Bard, etc

Pre-req: has already attained at least caster level 5 in a form of Magus.
Pre-req: each type of caster should have one or more other pre-req specific to it.

HD: d4
BAB: poor
Saves: Will good, Fort and Refl poor
Skill Pts: 2 + Int
Prof: none gained

Spells per Day
LV 0 . 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9
01 2*. 1*. 1 . - . - . - . - . - . - . -
02 2*. 2*. 1 . - . - . - . - . - . - . - Special
03 2*. 2*. 1 . 1 . - . - . - . - . - . -
04 3*. 2*. 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - . - . -
05 3*. 2*. 2 . 1 . 1 . - . - . - . - . -
06 3*. 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - . -
07 3*. 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . 1 . - . - . - . -
08 3*. 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . - . - . - . - Special
09 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . 1 . - . - . -
10 4 . 3 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . - . - . -
11 4 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . 1 . - . -
12 4 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . - . -
13 4 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . 1 . -
14 4 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . - Special
15 5 . 4 . 4 . 4 . 3 . 3 . 2 . 2 . 1 . 1

* Upon first taking this PrC (as caster level 6) this number of spells per day should almost certainly be less than what the character is already capable of casting per day. As such, no new spells are gained for these levels until the number stated for this spell level is greater than the number of spells already allowed per day - which should occur the level just following the last of the *s.

Note that the final total number of spells per day is only one more than the non-PrC class. The PrC sacrifices depth for breadth. They can cast only once more per day than the non-PrC caster, but their spells are arranged over far more spell levels (0 - 9, rather than 0 - 6).

They also lose out on Specials, as only at second level do they no gain a new spell per day at any level. However, to alliviate part of this, they are granted a capstone special at level 14 and a mid-way special at level 8.This is still two less specials than the core class gets - and the core class has 2 more skill points per level as well.

The Specials would continue the path they were already upon as a Magus (priest, wizard, druid, bard, sorcerer, etc), although only half as fast as before, as their studies in higher level spells slows their ability to learn the paths. As such, for any specials that utilize level (lay on hands, turning attempts, bardic music uses, etc) only half the PrC levels would be counted. A Bard 5 / lord bard 10, therefore, would only have 10 uses of Bardic Music (5 from bard, 5 from half levels as an arch-bard).

All in all, the PrC sacrifices much for the additional spell levels, although few would likely say consider them 'underpowered' for this loss, due to the vast power of the spells they can eventually cast.



Anyway, how does this sound? I know it has problems and needs more work, and I know it could never be used in typical core play (due to being a bit underpowered), but I thought I would put out what I have for general reviews, etc.

 

[Darklone]

Hehehe. The effect of all your nice work is similar to a pretty common houserule for these settings: Spellcasters have to be multiclassed and the spellcasting class cannot be the single highest class.

All in all, nice work though.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Two words: Grim Tales.

 

[Felnar]

the spells per days seems incredibly low, 3rd level to cast 1 1st level spell a day?
at least you gave them med bab and light armor

Two words: Grim Tales.

thats four words (until i turned my brain on )

 

[Nyeshet]

Well, it *is* supposed to be an alteration for a low magic setting

That is, in fact, the reason I gave them d6 HD, medium BAB, light armor, simple weapons, and 4 + int skill points per level, a medium save (in addition to a Good Will save), and several specials. Magic is a significant part of their character, but it is not the *only* part of their character. Only those seeking the highest and most potently powerful spells are reduced to d4 HD, low BAB, only one good save, 2 + Int skill points, and half the number of specials. It is a trade-off, and quite a potent one.

Note, however, that the above does not take into consideration bonus spells per day due to high casting ability score (which, considering the few spells they get normally, is a notably more potent increase in casting per day). Yet considering the bump in level for stat boosting spells (as mentioned at the top of the first post), and considering also the higher caster level needed to cast such spells, items that increase an ability score while they are worn will be significantly more expensive, significantly rarer. Wish and tomes, etc will be even rarer - if not unique artifacts - due to the utter rarity of those capable of ninth level casting. Thus natural ability scores (with the boost received every 4th level) will be far more important.

Another thing to consider is that priests (aka clerics) do not have domains listed. I have not yet decided how to deal with them. Spontaneous casting no longer exists, but then its function has been taken on by Lay on Hands. I might go a sphere route, arranging spheres such that each one has more or less the same number of spells per level as any other sphere. With as many spells as exists, it should not be too difficult. Actually, I'm thinking of altering Turning such that it becomes Channeling, and only priests of certain deities would turn undead, just like others turn this or that type of elemental, or vermin, etc. Still others would use turning to activate one of their granted domain powers. Other uses of channeling might also potentially exist.

Sorcerers would likely be quite different, one from another, based upon their ancestory. I might go through the spells and add a subtype to some suggesting whether or not a sorcerer of a given path can take that spell, thus further differentiating them. Some spells would be generalized, allowing any sorcerer to take them. With this and the heritage paths in place, Sorcerers would be notably different from each other - potentially extremely so.

As it is, the 'typical' magus would be more along the line of a lesser combative with a gift of magic that allows them to keep up with the others in the band. At highest levels their powers would make them indispensable parts of the band, while at lower levels they would be useful but not necessarily necessary members of the band.


On the other hand, I should point out that, as I answered on another thread, I tend to use a different arrangement of demographic leveling than suggested in the core rules.

Lv 1 - apprentice, ~10% of a given population
Lv 2 - journeyman, ~15% of a given population
Lv 3 - journeyman, ~20% of a given population
Lv 4 - journeyman, ~25% of a given population
Lv 5 - journeyman, ~15% of a given population
Lv 6 - journeyman, ~10% of a given population
Lv 7 - journeyman, ~5% of a given population
Lv 8+ - rare, often unique individuals in any given population

NPC - ~85-90% of a population
PC - ~10-15% of a population

Commoners - only the slaves, serfs, and lowest menial laborers, ~20% in urban, ~40% in rural
Experts - typical NPCs, ~75% of the population in urban areas, ~55% in rural areas
Warriors - ~1d10% of the population (~5.5% usually)
Adepts - unused, instead use PC caster (as above), but keep levels as shown above for NPCs
Aristocrats - <1%, but use an Expert instead for versatility (except use high BAB)


The end result is that most NPCs are 3rd - 4th level Experts, with the occasional commoner or warrior thrown in for variety. In part because of this, I tend to start off a campaign with the party at level 3 or 4. Occasionally I'll start it at level 1 or 2, but that tends to be when the group wants to play something unusual (perhaps the youthful survivors of a destroyed town or village, seeking their way in life, etc).

 

[starwed]

I think I prefer the d20 modern approach of advanced classes: you can't take caster classes until you're about level 4.

 

[robberbaron]

Not sure I'd be bothered to create new tables to solve this. Perhaps, I'd say that you could only take a caster level every other level.
Basically force magical multiclassing.

 

[Exen Trik]

A while back I toyed around with the idea of making variant casters with far less spellcasting power (spell levels up to 6th, with very limited spell selections), but with supernatural and spell-like abilites and better overall stats. Kind of like bards with a stronger spellcasting focus.

My favorites were the super specialists: an illusionist with better Reflex and Skill points, that had a kind of displacement style ability; an evoker with better hit points and BAB, with a warlock style special attack and elemental powers; and the abjurer with natural SR, DR and counterspelling abilities. Never detailed them out though.

It technically may count as low magic, but certainly doesn't feel like it. Depends on what you're going for, I guess.