D&D 5E An Odd Rules Issue with Suggestion

[5ekyu]

The suggestion was to throw the sword back or you will die - I don't think that rises to a "You must throw the sword back or you will die". Therefore my take is that as long as the sword gets thrown back by someone the suggestion is completed.

The OP said "Suggests that the only way the goblin will survive is if he throws the sword back".

Was that changed in a later post to be lacking the "he" part and replace it with "somebody"?

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Players get this peculiar notion in their heads that one successful casting is all it takes.

Two goblins, running and passing.

One Suggestion spell.

I can see a problem straight away.

I'd have had the Suggested goblin immediately drop the sword as not an action, once ensorcelled - but then the second goblin would have picked it up (and cuffed his stupid team-mate).

I had a similar issue where the party wizard cast a single Knock spell on a double barred gate. Much angst, gnashing and wailing ensued, but I held my ground. Players sometimes need to pull up their socks and try a bit harder.

 

[Oofta]

One of the reasons I will sometimes "help" with suggestion spells is that I'm assuming the caster PC has a genius level IQ. Most players do not.

So if I, as a DM, see a logical flaw in the suggestion I'll point it out. Part of my goal of never playing "gotcha" DMing.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

"...target complies to the best of their ability."

Helping the 2nd goblin to escape with said sword is less than best of ability. It could interpret 'throw it back' as drop it behind and run, or wait until its turn and literally throw it (maybe house rule and burn its reaction?).

The interpretation is made easier if you put your mind inside the goblin and use the Bard's tone and most common use of phrase.

 

[Hussar]

I have to admit, one casting is really all it should take. I didn't have any problems with that. On the Goblin's turn, it would certainly have thrown the sword back.

Like I said, it was the question of whether or not the Suggestion would cause the goblin to resist the other goblin taking the sword. And, well, looking at this thread, yes, it should have.

I just got tied up in the interpretation end of the spell.

But, forcing the PC's to use two suggestion spells is far too much. That just means that they won't bother next time, and they'll just use blasting spells.

 

[iserith]

These kinds of spells are kinda tricky to adjudicate. You don't want to make them too powerful, but, at the same time, you don't want to screw over the caster either. It's a really fine line to tread.

It's still a Concentration spell though so the expectation is that, if you cast one of those, the DM is sending every monster after you to beat you like a rented mule until you fail a Con save. This is how game balance is maintained in a fair and impartial way. Everyone gets what they want.

 

[billd91]

These kinds of spells are kinda tricky to adjudicate. You don't want to make them too powerful, but, at the same time, you don't want to screw over the caster either. It's a really fine line to tread.

They can be - you want to make sure you give both the PCs and the NPCs/monsters an even break. A suggestion isn't as powerful as domination, nor would it be a direct death sentence or an insta-win, but that goblin failed the save and the PCs should derive tangible benefit from it. I think the suggestion that some others have made - that the suggestion-affected goblin shouldn't just hand over the sword, forcing the other goblin to at least spend an action at the task of retrieving it - is probably the most balanced ruling. The suggestion is being ameliorated by the goblins so the sword doesn't get thrown, but it comes at a cost that the PCs can take advantage of by potentially catching the fleeing goblin carrying the sword.