An Odd Situation

[Bonzi]

250 cubic feet isn't very big. You're talking about a 5'X5' room with a 10' ceiling. I have closets bigger than that in my house.

 

[Infiniti2000]

1) The weight thing--I've always considered dragons to be fairly light for their size...otherwise, I don't see anyway that their relatively low wingspan could keep them aloft. So, the weight is fine.

I assume you're using the Draconomicon where the dracolich is provided. Given that, dragon weights are listed in the book. Any Large or larger dragon will be WAY to heavy for the bag (2,500 lbs minimum). If you're just ignoring some of the book, that is fine, but then you can't expect a legitimate answer to any question.

I've generally ruled that putting things in/taking them out, the bag is magic so will "stretch" to accomodate, though it won't actually look any bigger. Like old cartoons.

So why do they chop up the featherweight dragon in the first place? Just for S&G?

2) Dismembering. We've got a couple of nature-freaks in the party, so doing this in such a way as to not damage the scales, to me, doesn't seem that hard. But not really the point.

It's a point I was making and I disagree. To dismember the beast to accommodate potential armor, shields, etc. requires someone proficient in the appropriate craft skill, at a minimum. It will be very time consuming.

3) The dracolich description says nothing about the corpse requiring to be whole. At least not that I saw, but it's possible I missed it.

I agree it says nothing. My point was that a corpse by definition is (relatively) whole, is it not? Otherwise, the dracolich lich has a choice of how many different corpses? Separate the arm and you have two corpses?

5) A lot of this, as Bad Paper's point 5 brought up, and was really what was stumping me on this...Are items in the Bag of Holding close enough to each other? Are they all in the same pocket dimension or different ones? Is it even physical space in such a manner that the phylactery and the dragon's corpse existed?

It is undefined, but I'd allow a freeform space, but that has a boundary. Thus, sharp bones (take a look at the pictures in the Draconomicon) can and should puncture the bag. Did they chop off the horns and stuff?

And to Infiniti--I'm just curious what about this makes you think that it would be a proto-dracolich? Did I miss something when I was reading it? What I saw was that if the 'lich made his Charisma check, then it was a lich, otherwise it was a proto-.

You missed this: "A proto-dracolich comes into being when a dracolich's spirit posseses any body other than the corpse that was created when the dragon consumed its dose of dracolich brew." That is clearly the case here. This bad boy (when formed) is a proto-dracolich for 2d4 days.

Really, I was just curious how others would manage it; plot wise, I had the lich (with both body and mind remembering that it had been bested by these heroes--that's two times) snag a scroll of teleport while the heroes were busy buffing behind a wall of force and get out. Enemies plotting from afar are always fun.

A proto-dracolich cannot cast spells, so he could not have used the scroll unless you gave him ranks in UMD. Where'd it get the scroll? I would also just have it flee as fast as possible, by any means available.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Yeah, I've also gotta chime in on the dragon size. A medium or smaller dragon could fit in the bag. it takes up a five foot space - and that means it probably doesn't fill the space so it could be as much as ten feet tall and still have room to spare.

But a large dragon ... now we're talking 10x10. That's 100 square feet. Even if we can agree that the dragon only takes up half the space in all actuality that's still 50 square feet. that dragon best not be more than 5 feet tall!

A huge dragon is 15x15. That's 225 square feet. Even if you take half of that you are at what ... 112.5? Dragon best not be more than a little over 2 feet tall!

I don't think the question anymore is what happens by the rules. Unless you are talking about a medium or smaller dragon - I think the rules are chucked out the window here. Assuming a large dragon or more - the question is now that the rules ave been already fudged, how do you get back to some semblance of reality. And this isn't even taking into account things like a bag puncture, the time it takes a dracolich to do get its groove back on, etc.

Roll intimidate. Small circumstance bonus since you already allowed the dragon to go in the bag. Play on.

 

[moritheil]

I would suggest ruling that the player pulls a mutilated, gore-covered, unrecognizable chunk of flesh out, and pointing out that it won't be recognizable as a dragon's head without substantial cleaning.

Taxidermists exist for a reason, after all.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

This is more fun with bodaks. Stuff a humanoid corpse killed by a bodak in your bag. Wait 24 hours ... "Bodak in a Bag" (tm)!