Anakin (spoilers and speculation)

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Forgiving the Anakin the sins he accumulated as Darth Vader trivializes the suffering he created in others. But then forgiving a person often trivializes the suffering their sins create in others.

I think getting into the realm of 'fogiveness' is missing the point with Anakin. He never DID get forgiveness. He was redeemed, yes, but never actually forgiven.

With all do respect to Ankh-Morpork Guard, even if Palpatine lied about everything right down to the color of the sky, Anakin still chose his own path.

He did chose it, but you have to also look at this from a point of view that works with Star Wars. Circumstances were out of his control. What happened to Anakin happened because OTHERS decided it would happen, and he was used as a pawn(both by the Jedi Order AND Palpatine). Destiny plays a major role in Star Wars. This isn't the Matrix with the whole 'power of choice'

With all do respect to RangerWickett, I feel you have (not intentionally) created a false distinction between forgiveness and redemption because – to me at least – the latter would not seem to be possible without the former.

That may be where your problem lies. Anakin was NEVER forgiven of what he did, and he never asked for it. But he DID die a good man. He died after finally doing the right thing, redeeming himself by saving his son. Anakin could never have been redeemed if not for Luke, as it took his son being so close to death for him to really open his eyes.

And as a man raised Baptist, I cannot argue with Captain Tagon’s statement.

But that has no bearing on Anakin and Star Wars at all. Especially beacuse it goes back to forgiveness, which is something that Anakin never recieved.

In any event, what are we to make of Anakin's apparent transcendence at the end of Return of the Jedi?

It says that Luke was right when he said that the Emperor hadn't drive then light completely from Vader. No matter how evil he was, there was still good in him. You'll note that Vader isn't the one to transcend. Anakin is. There IS a distinction between the two. Take Obi-Wan's 'certain point of view'. The day Darth Vader was born Anakin Skywalker ceased to be. Following that, the day that Darth Vader died(metaphorically, here), Anakin Skywalker returned and at least redeemed himself by dieing a good man and not the 'more machine than man' that Obi-Wan describes him as.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I simply had to post this.

http://www.strauss.za.com/sla/emp_vs_rep.html

Read and enjoy.

 

[Klaus]

In Expanded Universe Star Wars (Dark Alliance novel, IIRC), Anakin's ghost comes to Leia asking for forgiveness.

She tells him to get lost (he tortured her, froze her beloved, cut off her brother's hand, destroyed her entire planet *while making her watch*).

 

[Volaran]

I thought I might point out that (and I know this is extended universe, so not necessarily applicable) when I recall reading the Jedi sourcebook for Star Wars d20, there seem to be a fair amount of cases similar to Anakin.

Powerful Jedi is 'turned to the dark side', accomplishes acts of unforgivable evil, eventually 'returned to the light side', and allowed to say...carry on teaching young Jedi. It isn't to say that they're forgiven by anyone else, but the Jedi seem to accept anything done under the influence of the dark side to almost be as if it was someone else. Then again, redemption fits the Jedi character, while vengence and retribution don't.

 

[Dagger75]

It is easier to remain angry and seek to destroy evil. That path leads to the dark side itself

For the Jedi, to redeem someone is harder but then being good is not always easy. For someone who is truly evil and done evil things to TRULY turn to the light side is a good thing. Maybe that dark jedi will not be forgiven of his crimes but he can be assured his "soul (in the Jedi sense)" will continue to live on for the greater good.

An maybe thats going to be a reason for the resentment of the jedi. A murdours despot who was consumed with the dark side terrorized a hundred worlds. Killed countless millions and destroyed worlds is visited by some jedi. Next thing the people see is this depot leaving with the jedi to live on Coroscant. There was no trial, and no justice in these peoples eyes. Sure they are free now but they hear how this despot has been redeemed. To most this is just like forgiving this butcher of his crimes.
The jedi see themselves above the rest. As long as the scales of the force are equal and there is balance all is good. The redemtion of this butcher equaled out the corruption that ate him.

Damn I hate the jedi now. Freaking arrogant bastards But I have a game idea now.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I thought I might point out that (and I know this is extended universe, so not necessarily applicable) when I recall reading the Jedi sourcebook for Star Wars d20, there seem to be a fair amount of cases similar to Anakin.

Powerful Jedi is 'turned to the dark side', accomplishes acts of unforgivable evil, eventually 'returned to the light side', and allowed to say...carry on teaching young Jedi. It isn't to say that they're forgiven by anyone else, but the Jedi seem to accept anything done under the influence of the dark side to almost be as if it was someone else. Then again, redemption fits the Jedi character, while vengence and retribution don't.

Yep. The most major one that can be considered similar to Anakin is Ulic Qel-Droma in the Tales of the Jedi comics. Great Jedi Knight...tried to infiltrate the Sith to stop them, but ended up being being turned into a Sith(though Sith Poison, I believe). He then became one of the more dangerous among the Sith. After killing his brother, he was stripped of the Force and exiled. He wan't actually redeemed until his death, when after training Vima Sunrider(daughter of the Jedi who stripped him of the Force) he was shot by a smuggler and became one with the Force.

Very similar overall to Anakin's story.

Oh, and I think Anakin first appeared(timeline wise) to Leia in Truce at Bakura, but she didn't come to terms with at least accepting him as her father until a very long tim afterwards.

 

[Orius]

In Expanded Universe Star Wars (Dark Alliance novel, IIRC), Anakin's ghost comes to Leia asking for forgiveness.

She tells him to get lost (he tortured her, froze her beloved, cut off her brother's hand, destroyed her entire planet *while making her watch*).

I believe it was in The Truce at Bakura, which takes place right after Jedi.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Damn I hate the jedi now. Freaking arrogant bastards But I have a game idea now.

They were only like that during the Rise of the Empire Wonderful group of people up until that point!

 

[PhoenixDarkDirk]

Anakin's eyes glow, eh? Considering that, his path to evil, and his deep voice, I think it's quite clear that he was taken by a Goa'uld. It fits everything.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Anakin's eyes glow, eh? Considering that, his path to evil, and his deep voice, I think it's quite clear that he was taken by a Goa'uld. It fits everything.

Hell that makes sense - if he gets a symbiont after he is mortally wounded, that could explain his survival!