...And now Vadania with the weather

[Kibo]

One of the things that bothers me about the Druid class (aside from the fact that they are simultaniously BROKEN!!!! and have gotten the SHAFT!) is there Nature Sense Ability and the fact that knowledge nature is a class skill. Why would a druid ever put skill points in knowledge nature when they get to automatically take a 20 or even a 30. After all they can identify plants and animals including special traits with "perfect accuracy".

I don't find it particularly overpowered. Rather I find it totally obliterates the point of having knowledge nature beyond weather forecasting, and saving up for epic spell slots.

I was wonder if anyone house ruled this, and if so what were the rules. I was thinking about a free Skill Focus (Knowledge Nature) to keep somewhat with the pattern, just a basic 5 bonus ranks in knowledge nature that don't count towards the maximum ranks, or alteration that adds 1/2 the druid levels to the knowledge nature ranks. But if it's an issue that's come up for other people it seems likely that someone has come up with an elegant and clever solution.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I house ruled this because, as you point out, it makes knowledge(nature) irrelevant.

My house rule: Druids add their class level to any knowledge(nature) check which they make (like bards get to add their class level to lore checks).

In a similar vein, I don't allow trackless step to automatically make druids untrackable. Instead I give +1 DC per druid class level. (they become pretty much untrackable as soon as they wildshape into something with wings anyway)

Cheers

 

[Suldulin]

Key Difference in a key difference in knowledge nature and nature sense:

Knowledge nature: 'well these animals can do this, I could use such and such plants to do that. . ." so on and so forth

Nature sense: 'well that animal can do these things, these plants in my field of view can do such." and so on

for herbalism:
nature sense is best when you have a nice shop to browse

knowledge nature is good for out in the wild when you need to remember where to find the plants and what they can do and look like

basically:
nature sense=knowing what something does when you can see it

knowledge nature=remembering what something does when you can't see it

 

[Gez]

I also use Knowledge Nature to detect possible effects of druidic magic, religion for clerical, and arcane for arcane.

 

[Jeph]

You mean instead of Spellcraft? or you can make a Spellcraft check or an appropriate knowledge check? Or something completely different?

 

[Bhaal]

You mean instead of Spellcraft? or you can make a Spellcraft check or an appropriate knowledge check? Or something completely different?

I usually allow an applicable knowledge check (religion, arcane, nature, ...) if the spellcasters botch their spellcraft rolls. But only if they have it and can cast those types of spells. So if the cleric screws up his spellcraft to see if a temple altar has any spells on it, he can make a knowledge religion to surmise that there is probably some sort of consecration/blessed type of spell on this particular type of temple altar (provided that roll was ok). I'm usually pretty vague, and limit it to spells on objects (or living things) that the character might consider that another similar spellcaster would cast. So if the party comes across a magical tree, the druid/ranger can try knowledge nature (after a bad spellcraft) to see if the character can make an educated guess on what types of spells would be good candidates to cast on a tree. Sure, the players can metagame that to an extent, but with the check they know for certain that it's been narrowed down.

 

[Gez]

You mean instead of Spellcraft? or you can make a Spellcraft check or an appropriate knowledge check? Or something completely different?

No. Spellcraft (or Psicraft, for that matter) is used to recognize a spell directly.

However, to realize that some details are the result of the lingering effects of a spell, a Knowledge check can be made.

For example, upon seeing the charred remain of a burned tree, a Knowledge Arcana check may be made to realize the tree has probably been burned by a fireball spell rather than by an arson or a natural lightning.

Similarly, Knowledge Nature can allow to discover that a field has been treated with Plant Growth, or that a seemignly normal animal (that is, one that act in normal animal ways) is in fact Awakened, or an Animal Companion, or both. Knowledge Arcana would recognize a familiar disguizing as a normal animal; and Knowledge Nature would recognize an Adept's familiar the same way.

Other example include discovering if some creature has been charmed or dominated (the normal Sense Motive roll can still be made also), under the effect of a Polymorph spell, if wounds have been magically healed (provided some hit points are still missing), etc.