Do you need Archetypes, Classes, and Villains?

[RenleyRenfield]

Situation: You bought a new ttrpg because neato. But it is a generally new setting, lore, and game that is uncommon so you are a little or a lot unfamiliar with what its like to play.
(This could be from a wholly strange setting, no humans or humanoids to play as, strange magic concepts, or some other such thing - whatever this means to you. Just a general setup of 'unfamiliar' so you can't rely on your knowledge from D&D or Vampire or Star Trek and such... )

Question: What do you need to jump in and quickly find your fun in this supposed new game?

- Are Classes needed? (these are things that the game designer assumed were the most common activities in game, kinda like how D&D has fighter, wizard, rogue as its core since those are very common activities

- Are Archetypes needed? (these are things that highlight the theme of the game, not the actual gameplay. Like vampire clans, where they have a theme to them 'Brujah anarch poet", but the player gets to truly customize their skills and powers, so could end up being "Brujah leader manipulator".

- Are Villains needed? (These are really obvious enemies that you pretty much are aware of from the get go. And they are always in opposition to your character, maybe can be bargained with, but usually just want to kill your character. Kinda like evil Liches, necromancer lords, demon dukes of hell, general hunters of your character types, etc etc etc)

- Are metaplots needed? (These are events or general situations in a game that force the group and GM to play into the game's own plots. Kinda like Lord of the Rings get rid of the ring, or wrath of the lich king invasions, or vampire's Camarilla and their masquerade rules, etc etc)


EDIT: along with any ideas you have, feel free to rank the value of above items on scale of 1 to 10

 

[payn]

Situation: You bought a new ttrpg because neato. But it is a generally new setting, lore, and game that is uncommon so you are a little or a lot unfamiliar with what its like to play.
(This could be from a wholly strange setting, no humans or humanoids to play as, strange magic concepts, or some other such thing - whatever this means to you. Just a general setup of 'unfamiliar' so you can't rely on your knowledge from D&D or Vampire or Star Trek and such... )

Question: What do you need to jump in and quickly find your fun in this supposed new game?

- Are Classes needed? (these are things that the game designer assumed were the most common activities in game, kinda like how D&D has fighter, wizard, rogue as its core since those are very common activities

Maybe? I think class is a design choice. I prefer it in D&D fantasy type RPGs just out of tradition, but games can certainly work without classes. 5/10

- Are Archetypes needed? (these are things that highlight the theme of the game, not the actual gameplay. Like vampire clans, where they have a theme to them 'Brujah anarch poet", but the player gets to truly customize their skills and powers, so could end up being "Brujah leader manipulator".

Im a big fan of archetypes myself. PF1 is still my preferred fantasy RPG. Adding customizable bits to my character while also adding flavor that can connect to the setting is a big win. 10/10

- Are Villains needed? (These are really obvious enemies that you pretty much are aware of from the get go. And they are always in opposition to your character, maybe can be bargained with, but usually just want to kill your character. Kinda like evil Liches, necromancer lords, demon dukes of hell, general hunters of your character types, etc etc etc)

Im good with factions and love political intrigue. So, for me its more about philosophy and opposed beliefs with characters of a setting when it comes to villainy. I dont mind alignment and planar beings of pure energy type things in D&D, but that kinda deal isnt required. 5/10

- Are metaplots needed? (These are events or general situations in a game that force the group and GM to play into the game's own plots. Kinda like Lord of the Rings get rid of the ring, or wrath of the lich king invasions, or vampire's Camarilla and their masquerade rules, etc etc)

I think metaplots are fantastic as they give guidance to both GM and players. Baked in ones that are too overbearing though are not appreciated. Ideally, you have a nuanced setting that leaves room for a lot of campaign types. 7/10

 

[overgeeked]

Question: What do you need to jump in and quickly find your fun in this supposed new game?

The core task resolution mechanic and broad strokes of the setting.

- Are Classes needed? (these are things that the game designer assumed were the most common activities in game, kinda like how D&D has fighter, wizard, rogue as its core since those are very common activities

Nope.

- Are Archetypes needed? (these are things that highlight the theme of the game, not the actual gameplay. Like vampire clans, where they have a theme to them 'Brujah anarch poet", but the player gets to truly customize their skills and powers, so could end up being "Brujah leader manipulator".

These are incredibly useful, though not required.

- Are Villains needed? (These are really obvious enemies that you pretty much are aware of from the get go. And they are always in opposition to your character, maybe can be bargained with, but usually just want to kill your character. Kinda like evil Liches, necromancer lords, demon dukes of hell, general hunters of your character types, etc etc etc)

In the sense of general opposition to the PCs' goals, yes. In the sense of specifically knowing these monsters and their stat blocks, no. If the setting is unique, you'll want to pick out the unique creatures, factions, NPCs, etc to give the game the right feel, but you don't need stat blocks. Something more akin to archetypes above but for the opposition is sufficient.

- Are metaplots needed? (These are events or general situations in a game that force the group and GM to play into the game's own plots. Kinda like Lord of the Rings get rid of the ring, or wrath of the lich king invasions, or vampire's Camarilla and their masquerade rules, etc etc)

Only if it's truly definitional to the setting when used as a game. Unless you're playing through the Fellowship of the Ring and their specific journey, that story is not definitional to the setting when used as a game. So too with all other licensed games as far as I'm concerned. I don't play in those settings to regurgitate the stories I already know, rather to play our own variations on a theme.

 

[Corinnguard]

Are Classes needed?

For an RPG like D&D, classes help the player decide what they want to be within a given adventure. Do they want to be a front-line combatant such as the Fighter or the Barbarian, or do they want to be the party's magical artillery and lob spells at opponents? An RPG doesn't really need them, but they do act as guideposts when you aren't certain about what your character can and can't do.

Are Archetypes needed?

I like them because they are an additional way for you to customize your character and make them stand out from other individuals who have the same class. Are they needed? Maybe. You could stick with the base version of the class and customize your character with your choice of skills, gear, and/or spells. However, their presence in an RPG helps take out some of the guesswork you'll face when trying to meet a particular character concept.

Are Villains needed?

As a potential source of conflict for the characters to deal with while adventuring? Yes. It's kind of hard to imagine an adventure without one or more of them. They're a bit of a trope.

Are metaplots needed?

Adventures seldom have a single plot running through them, especially when your party is dealing with multiple villainous factions. Each of whom has their own agenda. Done right, they can be pretty challenging.

 

[bloodtide]

I really hate the idea of Archtypes/Villains/Metaplots in the Core game book where the writer is saying that THIS is a worldwide thing EVERYWHERE.

Along with Classes, I want things like Archtypes and Villains and plots to be Regional. Not setting wide.

I don't mind some generic classes that are setting wide, but much more want Regional Classes....or Generic classes that can be made Regional.

And I want Villains to have a couple of pages of complex plot, not just endless stats that do 1d2 damage...zzzzz. And the villains should have unique abilities and powers and such...not just reprinting abilities from page 11.

 

[Theory of Games]

Situation: You bought a new ttrpg because neato. But it is a generally new setting, lore, and game that is uncommon so you are a little or a lot unfamiliar with what its like to play.
(This could be from a wholly strange setting, no humans or humanoids to play as, strange magic concepts, or some other such thing - whatever this means to you. Just a general setup of 'unfamiliar' so you can't rely on your knowledge from D&D or Vampire or Star Trek and such... )

Question: What do you need to jump in and quickly find your fun in this supposed new game?

I jump into character creation and hopefully the game has sample characters to get design concepts from.

- Are Classes needed? (these are things that the game designer assumed were the most common activities in game, kinda like how D&D has fighter, wizard, rogue as its core since those are very common activities

No. IMO classes are an obstacle to character creation.

- Are Archetypes needed? (these are things that highlight the theme of the game, not the actual gameplay. Like vampire clans, where they have a theme to them 'Brujah anarch poet", but the player gets to truly customize their skills and powers, so could end up being "Brujah leader manipulator".

Since the new game has its own setting and lore, I expect setting-specific archetypes, usually worked into sample characters.

- Are Villains needed? (These are really obvious enemies that you pretty much are aware of from the get go. And they are always in opposition to your character, maybe can be bargained with, but usually just want to kill your character. Kinda like evil Liches, necromancer lords, demon dukes of hell, general hunters of your character types, etc etc etc)

Villains or at least ideas for them should be baked into the setting and lore.

- Are metaplots needed? (These are events or general situations in a game that force the group and GM to play into the game's own plots. Kinda like Lord of the Rings get rid of the ring, or wrath of the lich king invasions, or vampire's Camarilla and their masquerade rules, etc etc)

Having a metaplot backed into the setting lore isn't a bad idea IMO. It can sometimes fuel the group's collective imagination.

EDIT: along with any ideas you have, feel free to rank the value of above items on scale of 1 to 10

Archetypes: 10/10
Villains: 8/10
Metaplot: 6/10
Classes: 0/10

 

[Morrus]

Classes and archetypes assume it's a D&D variant. Assuming it's not a D&D variant, no I don't need classes and archetypes.

 

[Autumnal]

Classes and archetypes assume it's a D&D variant. Assuming it's not a D&D variant, no I don't need classes and archetypes.

I don’t need archetype in non-D&D games, but I like them. Done well, they help establish both the genre of play and the setting.

 

[Tonguez]

I really like FATE accelerated Approaches -and while they do inform how a character does things, they are much broader than archetypes and are instead informed by the Campaign and Character aspects developed by players.
So no classes arent needed and players can define their own archetypes.

The "Setting" is needed in order to get common tropes for players to work with eg "Vaguely medieval fantasy" is a setting with common tropes.

Source of conflict is needed for good storytelling, but not necessarily a Villain per se - eg I was reflecting on Agatha All the Way not really having a true villain with the challenge coming from the road, its situations/puzzles and how characters react/deal with them

 

[GMMichael]

Situation: You bought a new ttrpg because neato. But it is a generally new setting, lore, and game that is uncommon so you are a little or a lot unfamiliar with what its like to play. . . .

Question: What do you need to jump in and quickly find your fun in this supposed new game?

A demo adventure should touch on all the essentials. But learning a new setting, lore, and game can't be done quickly if it's very original. I've had the Numenera book for years now, and I still don't know the setting, lore and game

- Are Classes needed? (these are things that the game designer assumed were the most common activities in game, kinda like how D&D has fighter, wizard, rogue as its core since those are very common activities

- Are Archetypes needed? (these are things that highlight the theme of the game, not the actual gameplay. Like vampire clans, where they have a theme to them 'Brujah anarch poet", but the player gets to truly customize their skills and powers, so could end up being "Brujah leader manipulator".

- Are Villains needed? (These are really obvious enemies that you pretty much are aware of from the get go. And they are always in opposition to your character, maybe can be bargained with, but usually just want to kill your character. Kinda like evil Liches, necromancer lords, demon dukes of hell, general hunters of your character types, etc etc etc)

- Are metaplots needed? (These are events or general situations in a game that force the group and GM to play into the game's own plots. Kinda like Lord of the Rings get rid of the ring, or wrath of the lich king invasions, or vampire's Camarilla and their masquerade rules, etc etc)

1 being most important . . .
Archetypes, 1
Metaplots, 4
Villains, 7
Classes, 10
Classes are the only fully metagame item in this list. They'd be a little more essential if they were directly tied to something else... like "fighters" use the "fighter attack roll" that no one else uses.