Andy Collins Umber Setting

[Cheiromancer]

I've been reading Andy Collins Umber setting info and a number of things really set me thinking. For instance:

In the Umber setting there are no prestige classes. However, characters get a feat every level (not just at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, etc.) That's an extra 13 feats over the course of a 20 level campaign. Considering that the special abilities of prestige classes is about a feat (or feat equivalent) per level, that sounds just about right. (There are some subtleties; see the site for more information).

Another thing he does is use the fractional saving throw and BAB advancements. In other words the BAB of a druid 1/rogue 1/sorcerer 1 is 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.5 = +2, not 0 + 0 + 0 = +0 as in standard DnD. And the +2 bonus to good saves only applies to your first class level; characters can't get +8 base fort saves at 4th level, nor could you have 12th level characters with +1 reflex saves. This change seems like a good idea. It would change how and when characters would qualify for many prestige classes in a normal game, but if there are no prestige classes...

A third thing Andy does is limit character wealth to about 1/10 standard. Common items (rope, food, etc.) are also reduced in price, but items requiring high degrees of craftsmanship (locks, masterwork weapons, etc.) are standard price. Magic items are very rare. I like this idea, in that it makes characters less dependent on their equipment. The extra feats help make up the difference.

I don't know if the extra feats are quite sufficient to compensate for lack of treasure, though. With stat boosting items and tomes being more or less unavailable, one might have to change the system of level based ability boosts. Andy doesn't mention it, but I was thinking a bonus every even level, instead of every 4th level. and the level 12, 16 and 20 bonuses would apply to all stats, not just one.

Creatures with DR might have to be tweaked; maybe cut the DR in half? Although feats like Andy's own Supernatural Weaponbond would certainly help get around the lack of magical weapons. You could also do stuff like making a 6th level paladin's weapon count as good-aligned (CW 13).

Next campaign I start, I would seriously consider adopting these rules. Anyone else planning on using Umber material? Any rules that would mesh well with Andy's stuff that he doesn't mention?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I've been reading Andy Collins Umber setting info and a number of things really set me thinking. For instance:

In the Umber setting there are no prestige classes. However, characters get a feat every level (not just at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, etc.) That's an extra 13 feats over the course of a 20 level campaign. Considering that the special abilities of prestige classes is about a feat (or feat equivalent) per level, that sounds just about right. (There are some subtleties; see the site for more information).

Another thing he does is use the fractional saving throw and BAB advancements. In other words the BAB of a druid 1/rogue 1/sorcerer 1 is 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.5 = +2, not 0 + 0 + 0 = +0 as in standard DnD.

That makes sense.

And the +2 bonus to good saves only applies to your first class level; characters can't get +8 base fort saves at 4th level, nor could you have 12th level characters with +1 reflex saves. This change seems like a good idea. It would change how and when characters would qualify for many prestige classes in a normal game, but if there are no prestige classes...

A third thing Andy does is limit character wealth to about 1/10 standard.

Thats probably more accurate to fantasy literature (even D&D based literature).

Common items (rope, food, etc.) are also reduced in price, but items requiring high degrees of craftsmanship (locks, masterwork weapons, etc.) are standard price. Magic items are very rare. I like this idea, in that it makes characters less dependent on their equipment. The extra feats help make up the difference.

As we know, an extra feat each level would balance you against the lack of magical equipment.

I don't know if the extra feats are quite sufficient to compensate for lack of treasure, though. With stat boosting items and tomes being more or less unavailable, one might have to change the system of level based ability boosts. Andy doesn't mention it, but I was thinking a bonus every even level, instead of every 4th level. and the level 12, 16 and 20 bonuses would apply to all stats, not just one.

Might make sense, perhaps with a possible inherant maximum of +5 above your base stat.

Creatures with DR might have to be tweaked; maybe cut the DR in half? Although feats like Andy's own Supernatural Weaponbond would certainly help get around the lack of magical weapons. You could also do stuff like making a 6th level paladin's weapon count as good-aligned (CW 13).

You could reduce Golem DR to their material hardness.

Next campaign I start, I would seriously consider adopting these rules. Anyone else planning on using Umber material? Any rules that would mesh well with Andy's stuff that he doesn't mention?

The BAB thing I would use, although the lower equipment levels is anathema to my epic-level aspirations.

 

[Connorsrpg]

It was a while ago, but I remember reading quite a lot about the development of David's Umber CS. Its gritty atmosphere is what attracted me - I don't remember much of the exact rules he uses, though the fractional saves and atts stuck in my mind.

I actually like a character being able to have a high save (and therefore a low one) - that is the fun of choosing these options. Characters train in our CS, so new classes are harder to add

I have never liked the idea of changing the classes core attributes, like base att. However that Drd1/Rog1/Sor1 of yours is a good eg. +0 normally, whereas even a sorcerer3 has higher than that? Then again, I guess that is the price to pay for diversification. The character has been learning a greater amount of skills and not combat related stuff...

The main reason I had an interest in Umber was the low magic, low gold aspect. ALL my campaigns have ALWAYS been like that. My players know when they earn something, they have truly earnt it. I take very little notice of expected gp worth/lvl and all of that. It is not that powerful magics don't appear, it is just every NPC/PC is NOT loaded up with many small MI's.

In fact my quick way to determine such things is roll d10. If I roll their lvl or under = random MI. Then I roll again and go for a roll = lvl -1 and so on until I need a 1. That gets a healthy spread and is easy to do on the fly. Do the same for special items, such as masterwork weapons too.

Anyhow, Umber is interesting.

Connors

 

[Staffan]

Andy doesn't mention it, but I was thinking a bonus every even level, instead of every 4th level. and the level 12, 16 and 20 bonuses would apply to all stats, not just one.

I'm told that the Conan RPG does something like that. You get increases to one ability score at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20. You get increases to all your ability scores at levels 6, 10, 14 and 18.

 

[mercucio]

Or you could grant 2 ability points at 4th, 8th, 12, ect.

Does Umber include the Defense system from Unearthed Arcana? If so that will help compensate for the lack of magical items as well.