D&D 4E Angels in 4e: a possible future problem

[Incenjucar]

I just think it's stupid. Angels are typically good, Fallen Angels are Demons or Devils. When you use the word "demon" or "devil" you have an expectation, so too with "angel"

Angel of Death, Angel of Vengeance, Accuser Angel...

Angels are usually obedient.

Whether they're good or not depends on your view of the deity they serve.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I serious doubt Religious wackos will use the new edition of DnD as a scapegoat for anything considering that there are better scapegoats in todays media such as ultra violent video games , the internet, tv, movies, drugs, and music.

And Harry Potter. If you want to attack fantasy/pseudo-occult stuff, you go via Harry Potter. It's more widespread and has certainly more influence on children than D&D nowadays.

Cheers, LT.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Sorry, but they are still seen as "good", or being "from heaven".

I'll tread carefully here, but a big part of Christianity is the term of Justice, Righteous Anger or righteous indignation. Most people who understand Christianity understand that the terms fear, jealousy and anger when applied to God's servants are not incompatible with good of holiness. Too many people see things as solely Jesus' "hippy" outlook, not the wrath of Archangel Michael, for instance (or even when Jesus had his few anger moments).

My point is, angels are still commonly identified with the Celestial Realms (or "Heaven") and servants of good. It doesn't make sense for them to mess with that archetype to be a "generic god servant".

Speaking solely from expectations and the use of the word in common vernacular, I'd rather they use a more neutral term--hell, I'd accept daemon or divine spirit. (I'd say Archon but they've already got a use for that).

 

[IanB]

The unnamed-group-of-conservatives-ahem that we're talking about has bigger fish to fry right now, like videogames. I mean, have you seen the outcry over Mass Effect? It is absolutely frightening.

 

[Raduin711]

Sorry, but they are still seen as "good", or being "from heaven".

I'll tread carefully here, but a big part of Christianity is the term of Justice, Righteous Anger or righteous indignation. Most people who understand Christianity understand that the terms fear, jealousy and anger when applied to God's servants are not incompatible with good of holiness. Too many people see things as solely Jesus' "hippy" outlook, not the wrath of Archangel Michael, for instance (or even when Jesus had his few anger moments).

My point is, angels are still commonly identified with the Celestial Realms (or "Heaven") and servants of good. It doesn't make sense for them to mess with that archetype to be a "generic god servant".

Speaking solely from expectations and the use of the word in common vernacular, I'd rather they use a more neutral term--hell, I'd accept daemon or divine spirit. (I'd say Archon but they've already got a use for that).

I forsee red letters in your future...

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Let's not delve into the religious elements of this debate too far, folks. Blanket disparagement of those of religious faith is no more appropriate here than promotion of the same.

I think this thread can manage to walk that line, although I'll keep my eye on it!

-Moderator

 

[The Ubbergeek]

They tried it in 2e. I still shake my fist in revulsion at the terms "Baatezu" and "Tanar'ri".

What's wrong with them? They have a flavour. About one things they shouldn't have turned back, perhaps.

 

[Incenjucar]

Regardless of the standard religious view, the media types D&D is associated with (video games, comic books, novels, etc.) are the sort that are very likely to depict angels as antagonists or neutral parties. It's the overall reaction to being demonized by official society.

See: Spawn, X-Men, Ghost Rider, etc. It's often associated with why Angels are so vulnerable to falling. Power, arrogance, and a lack of empathy tend to lead to cruelty or sociopathy, even when malice in the proper sense isn't present. The Terminator wasn't EVIL, it was just following orders, etc.

Angels, in these media, are usually Lawful Good in the way that kobold-baby-burning Paladins are Lawful Good. They're out to follow the ruling of the deity, not, say, compassionate ethics.

The changes allow these stories to reflected in adventures.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Oddly, I think they're actually hitting closer to the source mythology on this one -- I seem to recall Biblical angels scaring the living daylights out of normal people, looking like they were made of fire/too many wings/odd geometric shapes etc. The new trend for Angels appears to have put a bit of that mystique back, as opposed to just having a bunch of blonde winged dudes with swords.

 

[The Little Raven]

It doesn't make sense for them to mess with that archetype to be a "generic god servant".

...to you. It makes perfect sense to some of us that an angel is a servant of a god, rather than just a servant of good.