Animal Companion + Awaken + Leadership

[smetzger]

Hi,

So, what do you guys think of allowing Animal Companion + Awaken + Leadership ?

I am thinking of allowing it and giving the creature the cumulative benefits of all 3. The only real sacrifice here is that the creature will not have NPC equipment. I am divided on if the -2 leadership penalty for animal companion should apply.

 

[Galethorn]

Are you wondering about an awakened animal having followers and cohorts, or about having an awakened animal AS a cohort?

 

[Nifft]

I dunno... I think that PC class levels are much better than Animal HD, so I'd personally prefer to have a low-HD animal with lots of class levels.

Even with the stuff that animal companions get, Animal HD are sub-par.

-- N

 

[smetzger]

Are you wondering about an awakened animal having followers and cohorts, or about having an awakened animal AS a cohort?

an awakened animal companion as a cohort

 

[smetzger]

I dunno... I think that PC class levels are much better than Animal HD, so I'd personally prefer to have a low-HD animal with lots of class levels.

Even with the stuff that animal companions get, Animal HD are sub-par.

-- N

I said "cummulative". So PC class levels plus the companion HD

 

[Nifft]

I said "cummulative". So PC class levels plus the companion HD

"Cummulative" means "piled on top of each other". The word I think you want means "piled next to each other, to the same height", and English has no such word that I know of.

Anyway, IMHO it's icky. Why bother with Rogue levels if you're going to get Evasion for free? Also, what's the drawback of Sorcerer levels if you get the BAB, saves & HP from a high-HD animal?

-- N

 

[smetzger]

"Cummulative" means "piled on top of each other". The word I think you want means "piled next to each other, to the same height", and English has no such word that I know of.

Anyway, IMHO it's icky. Why bother with Rogue levels if you're going to get Evasion for free?

A non-optimal choice but not without its benefits.

Also, what's the drawback of Sorcerer levels if you get the BAB, saves & HP from a high-HD animal?

A more optimal choice. But it would be difficult for a dog to cast spells. The most optimal choice I can think of is Druid with natural spell.

Lets look at the options for a 12th level Druid taking leadership.
The rules as written: the druid keeps his riding dog animal companion and takes leadership and receives a 10th level Druid cohort.

Bending the rules: the druid casts awaken (paying 250 xp) and takes leadership. His animal companion is now sentient and in addition to his normal powers has 10 levels of druid.

"The rules as written" option will result in two different creatures both who can take an action in combat. Plus the NPC druid comes with magic gear.

"Bending the rules" option will have more survivor potential due to higher hp and better saves; but will only have one attack option each round. Plus the creature doesn't have any magic items.

The 10 levels of Druid is just an example that I chose because I thought it would be a highly optimal choice. Monk may be another good choice.

 

[Nifft]

Lets look at the options for a 12th level Druid taking leadership.
The rules as written: the druid keeps his riding dog animal companion and takes leadership and receives a 10th level Druid cohort.

Bending the rules: the druid casts awaken (paying 250 xp) and takes leadership. His animal companion is now sentient and in addition to his normal powers has 10 levels of druid.

Probably the best classes for an animal are Psion and Psychic Warrior.

What makes you think that animals can't have magic items? MotW has several animal-specific items, and even the Core rules include Barding (animal-specific armor). Anything with forelimbs can wear bracers, anything with a head can wear an amulet, and anything with manipulation organs more advanced than pseudopods can wear a ring. Helmets and boots are out, as are cloaks, but a creative person can come up with many item-slots for any animal body.

There are other benefits to the "double HD" issue:
- High HP.
- Very high base saving throws.
- Significantly higher BAB.

So, a Fireball won't be a good tool against your Psion Cohort, as it normally would be.

Anyway, there's not much to debate: the rules specifically state that an Awakened animal is not suitable to be an Animal Companion.

No having your cake and 10 levels of Druid too.

-- N

 

[smetzger]

Probably the best classes for an animal are Psion and Psychic Warrior.

What makes you think that animals can't have magic items?

Oh I realize that they can. My point was that when you normally take the leadership feat the cohort comes pre-equiped with NPC gear. My proposal was that the NPC gear would not 'magically apear' once the awakened animal became a cohort.

There are other benefits to the "double HD" issue:
- High HP.
- Very high base saving throws.
- Significantly higher BAB.

Thank you for pointing out the additional BAB, I pointed out the others earlier.

Anyway, there's not much to debate: the rules specifically state that an Awakened animal is not suitable to be an Animal Companion.

I realize what the rules say. That is why I am posting in the House Rules forum. I am seeking feedback on the balance issues with implementing this as a House Rule.

Thank You,
Scott

 

[Nifft]

I heartily approve of the general idea: as I may have mentioned, I played a Druid with Leadership, and an Awakened Panther Psychic Warrior. My DM let me ignore the extra HD from Awaken and take all the non-base HD as PsiWar levels, and it was a far more effective as a cohort than my other Druid's companion, a non-Awakened Dire Wolf.

As to only a single action, consider the Psion who takes Schism -- normal physical actions, and a single extra mental action each round. Sure, it's devious, but I expect nothing less from players.

-- N