animate objects and dead creatures

[Voadam]

Dead creatures are objects for purposes of spells, right?

Animate objects can be cast on dead creatures then.

What would be the hardness of a huge dragon corpse?

 

[werk]

Off the cuff, I'd say:

Leather or hide
Hardness: 2

 

[mvincent]

What would be the hardness of a huge dragon corpse?

Since it's hide could make banded mail for a medium creature (or half-plate for a small creature), I would likely give it the same hardness as iron (10), or something close (8). Alternately, you could use the dragon's previous DR (which is also likely to be 10, or possibly 5) as hardness.

Another option: you could forego hardness and give the animated object armor; either based on the dragon's natural armor, or just on banded mail. Best to ask your DM, and provide him with some information and possibilities.

 

[Voadam]

Best to ask your DM, and provide him with some information and possibilities.

I am the DM Setting up for a combat with an NPC chaos domain cleric (6th level domain spell - animate object).

 

[mvincent]

I am the DM Setting up for a combat with an NPC chaos domain cleric (6th level domain spell - animate object).

So what will your answer be?

 

[TYPO5478]

Devil's Advocate...

To make this work, you've got to make a couple of dubious (or at least debatable) decisions. First, you have to decide that corpses are objects. I can't find a rule at the moment to confirm or deny this, but in my opinion, the fact that several spell targets make a distinction between objects and corpses means that corpses are not simply objects in the general sense of the game term.

Second, you'd have to decide that a Huge creature's corpse is the same size as a Huge object. Again, I can't find specific rules defining the size categories of different items, but there are a few different references to them obliquely. Weapon Size says that, for example, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder. This means that a longsword made for a Gargantuan creature would be a Huge object. However, clearly it would still be much smaller than a Huge dragon corpse. Obviously, this will affect the necessary caster level of the spell.

Assuming you decide both of these things are true (that corpses count as items for the purpose of spells that affect items and that an item's size category is equivalent to a creature's size category), you'll wind up with a Huge construct that can't do most of the things a normal dragon could do (but maybe that's the way you want it). My advice is to make sure you allow your players to use the same techniques that you do. This seems like too good a trick for them not to use it themselves.

 

[mvincent]

First, you have to decide that corpses are objects.

They are. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"Speak with dead doesn’t work on undead creatures, only on
corpses. An undead creature is not alive, but it’s also not a
corpse—a corpse is an object. (The undead creature might have
been made from a corpse, but it has transformed into something
else, mainly a creature). If you destroy an undead creature, it
ceases being a creature and becomes an object again."

Second, you'd have to decide that a Huge creature's corpse is the same size as a Huge object.

It is. I'm unsure who would argue that the animated corpse of a huge creature would not also be a huge creature.


fwiw (for the OP), I just found this in the 3.5 FAQ:
"There are no rules for determining the hardness or hit
points of a corpse. Most dead bodies don’t have a hardness
score, but the creature’s DR (if any) should continue to apply
against attacks. Use Table 9–9: Substance Hardness and Hit
Points and Table 9–11: Object Hardness and Hit Points in the
Player’s Handbook to estimate hit point values for corpses
should such situations arise in your game."

 

[Voadam]

I think the corpse animated object size would equal the original creature size without question. As an animated object it is a construct creature of x size. Regardless of the size of a Gargantuan giant's sword, a huge creature corpse animated as an object is a size huge construct.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Though I would probably go with a hardness of 2 (leather); the special material, dragonhide, has a hardness of 10.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Arkhandus]

Note that the corpse will be rotting normally. Animate Objects will do absolutely nothing to keep it from rotting. I suppose the enemy may be casting Gentle Repose to keep it from making a tremendous stink and falling apart as it rots, though.