Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Another Broken Combo: Seal of Binding and Divine Regeneration
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="MarkChevallier" data-source="post: 4274202" data-attributes="member: 55538"><p>Hi guys, I appreciate the feedback.</p><p></p><p>Some points:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are correct to say that encountering Orcus (for example, any Solo will do) with assistants means that using this power you cannot kill him alone. But remember, you should still have your party with you; if they can hold off the enemy you should be okay. And you can always fly away invisibly, or teleport to the astral plane or something, and wait the fight out, all the while sustaining your deadly grasp on Orcus. (You can sustain a power even when not in sight of the target; for evidence, I submit the Invisibility power).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is very true; the point of the trick isn't to kill Orcus quickly. Just to do it with (provided the initial attack is made) ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY (as you point out). There's no risk, no save and no follow up attack needed. He's dead.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A tricked out Wis Cleric has a Wis of 30, for a +10 bonus (the last +2 comes from Demigod). On top of that, they carry a +6 holy symbol. That's +16 per damage roll. It's probably trivially easy to scrape together some extra damage from other PCs, but the super-optimisation of this trick isn't my goal: just the demonstration that it is a very easily achieved, no-brainer tactic that will (again, contingent on your initial attack roll) seriously ruin any Solo's day.</p><p></p><p>And you have got your regeneration maths all wrong. The Cleric regenerates 30 per round and takes on average 27 damage. With regards to the Necrotic aura, I put to you that once he has begun the power, he walks out of the aura's range. He doesn't need to remain in range to sustain the power.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, in 3.5, an attack was only considered an attack for rules purposes if it made an attack roll. I'm not sure if that's still the case; in any event, Slashing Wake is not an attack power, so could still be used to inflict craploads of damage on Orcus using an Arcane Gate teleport setup (say, 36 damage every round or so with the right arrangement). </p><p></p><p>Of course, any GM is free to Rule 0 this (ie, not use the RAW) and say that they don't allow any other damage to take place at all. Then you're doing 1350 damage with your power, which I still think is quite some bang for your buck.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I know, it isn't simple in the sense of "a level 3 gnome can do this". But it is simple in that it's a very straight forward mix of 2 powers. If I'm a Cleric at that level, I look at Seal of Binding, and I think "no save, cool, how do I circumvent the damage?" and there is a very easy way to achieve that sitting on a nearby epic destiny.</p><p></p><p>The existence of this combo is, again, disappointing. I think someone may have overlooked it at the playtesting stage. Really, any GM should fix the trick by Rule 0-ing the power to work in a slightly different way (as brehobit suggests), the same as they should for Cascade of Blades; it's just annoying that they have to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MarkChevallier, post: 4274202, member: 55538"] Hi guys, I appreciate the feedback. Some points: You are correct to say that encountering Orcus (for example, any Solo will do) with assistants means that using this power you cannot kill him alone. But remember, you should still have your party with you; if they can hold off the enemy you should be okay. And you can always fly away invisibly, or teleport to the astral plane or something, and wait the fight out, all the while sustaining your deadly grasp on Orcus. (You can sustain a power even when not in sight of the target; for evidence, I submit the Invisibility power). This is very true; the point of the trick isn't to kill Orcus quickly. Just to do it with (provided the initial attack is made) ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY (as you point out). There's no risk, no save and no follow up attack needed. He's dead. A tricked out Wis Cleric has a Wis of 30, for a +10 bonus (the last +2 comes from Demigod). On top of that, they carry a +6 holy symbol. That's +16 per damage roll. It's probably trivially easy to scrape together some extra damage from other PCs, but the super-optimisation of this trick isn't my goal: just the demonstration that it is a very easily achieved, no-brainer tactic that will (again, contingent on your initial attack roll) seriously ruin any Solo's day. And you have got your regeneration maths all wrong. The Cleric regenerates 30 per round and takes on average 27 damage. With regards to the Necrotic aura, I put to you that once he has begun the power, he walks out of the aura's range. He doesn't need to remain in range to sustain the power. Well, in 3.5, an attack was only considered an attack for rules purposes if it made an attack roll. I'm not sure if that's still the case; in any event, Slashing Wake is not an attack power, so could still be used to inflict craploads of damage on Orcus using an Arcane Gate teleport setup (say, 36 damage every round or so with the right arrangement). Of course, any GM is free to Rule 0 this (ie, not use the RAW) and say that they don't allow any other damage to take place at all. Then you're doing 1350 damage with your power, which I still think is quite some bang for your buck. :) I know, it isn't simple in the sense of "a level 3 gnome can do this". But it is simple in that it's a very straight forward mix of 2 powers. If I'm a Cleric at that level, I look at Seal of Binding, and I think "no save, cool, how do I circumvent the damage?" and there is a very easy way to achieve that sitting on a nearby epic destiny. The existence of this combo is, again, disappointing. I think someone may have overlooked it at the playtesting stage. Really, any GM should fix the trick by Rule 0-ing the power to work in a slightly different way (as brehobit suggests), the same as they should for Cascade of Blades; it's just annoying that they have to. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Another Broken Combo: Seal of Binding and Divine Regeneration
Top