Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[Imaro]

No, the difference is that the site in question had ALL THE POWER TEXT FROM THE PH posted.

If other sites have pdfs of all of those cards I would be shocked if WotC didn't send them C&D's once they become aware of them.

And I remain shocked that others have such a hard time with the idea that posting about 50% of the PH (guesstimating, I admit) would not be cool with WotC. I don't really care which 50% it is- all the powers, everything but the powers, every odd page, whatever. It is INCREDIBLY obvious, if you think about it for one second, that any business that sells that information (in book form, for example) is NOT going to want it freely disseminated.

"But it's bad for the fans!"

Hey, you know what? Write what you want, create what you want, share it with your friends and your gaming group- but when you start widely distributing it, expect trouble. I don't care if it is WotC, GE, the Smithsonian or whatever- you cannot simply distribute the work of others without consequences.

I just cannot fathom why it is so hard to fathom this. But whatever, obviously some people have more of a sense of entitlement to the work and intellectual labor of others than I do.

Whatever, if I felt that way I wouldn't have bought the 4e PHB, DMG and MM instead of downloading the PDF's that are all over the internet... also see my earlier post about how I feel differently if there is enough information to play the game posted. In fact I didn't even defend Ema's site when it came under C&D... but the power card thing just irks me... especially if it's leading to them dissapearing of the net for good. To me it's paying extra to help facilitate the play of a game I have already bought. The power cards, unlike the minis and dungeon tiles, offer me no useability beyond D&D and thus honestly I would rather not be forced to pay for them if there are free ones I can keep as a PDF and print as many copies as I want of. In the end like I said earlier I don't dispute whether WotC had the right to send out the C&D letters... I don't however agree with the direction I see this headed in...YMMV of course.

 

[El Mahdi]

IANAL, but if 4epowercards.com was my site, I would've been tempted to see what the courts would've said about the matter.

Selling someone else's work as your own is wrong, but thats not the case here. No money changed hands, and no credit was taken--the text in question was obviously quoted from the PHB and other WotC books. ...

IANAL, but...

Copyrighted material is protected material - period - whether being sold or not. Money does not have to change hands in order to be violating copyright. Copyright means that you have almost absolute control over how your copyrighted material is used, when it's used, and how it's used - period (except for uses that may be considered "Fair Use" - such as the press, reviews, etc.).

 

[El Mahdi]

Yes, you can risk your copyrights. ...

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that only trademarks were vulnerable to this?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

IANAL, but if 4epowercards.com was my site, I would've been tempted to see what the courts would've said about the matter.

I wonder...how long until someone gets a C&D from wotC and says "No"...

then what???

WotC will have only 1 choice...sue...and with a lawsuit will come mor epress...

what will happen when WotC is forced to take action instead of these little letters...



I will play profit here and make a prediction: someone will call for a boycott...others will call it a war on fans...eaither way sales will drop...to compensate WotC will raise prices...witch will lead to more illigal downloads...witch will force WotC to crack down harder...


so to sum up my predictions those people that shut down there sites ASAP when they got the C&D are doing all of us a favor...

 

[Xyxox]

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that only trademarks were vulnerable to this?

What is risked is the value of the copyrights. IF you will not enforce them, then the value decreases.

I will use the case described in the OP as an example.

Web site "A" provides a free service where you, the user, can produce a PDF file of power cards you can print out. This seems innocuous, however, to accomplish this requires ~1800 separate violations of WotC copyright.

Meanwhile, WotC provides the DDI service which will accomplish this same functionality and a printed product for power cards. To do this they leverage value of already existing intellectual property contained within the PHB. The value of the intellectual property is decreased by the existance of web stie "A" because web site "A", in violation of WotC's copyright, is providing a free service that WotC seeks to gain revenue from in a subscription service and in a printed product.

Failure to enforce the copyright in this case has risk associated with it in that the value of the intellectual property is directly and measurably decreased.

 

[Oldtimer]

What is risked is the value of the copyrights. IF you will not enforce them, then the value decreases.

Are you saying that your consider the value of copyrights to be in the damages you can receive through litigation? I thought the value of copyrights were in the products you could sell...

Do you think you can state your position a little more clearly, because it seems several of us have a hard time understanding it.

Edit: That must have been telepathy at work...

 

[Xyxox]

Are you saying that your consider the value of copyrights to be in the damages you can receive through litigation? I thought the value of copyrights were in the products you could sell...

Do you think you can state your position a little more clearly, because it seems several of us have a hard time understanding it.

Edit: That must have been telepathy at work...

Re-read my edited post where I used the case of the OP as an example.

edit: and you must have hit "save" at the same time I hit "Quote".

 

[Oldtimer]

Web site "A" provides a free service where you, the user, can produce a PDF file of power cards you can print out. This seems innocuous, however, to accomplish this requires ~1800 separate violations of WotC copyright.

Meanwhile, WotC provides the DDI service which will accomplish this same functionality and a printed product for power cards. To do this they leverage value of already existing intellectual property contained within the PHB. The value of the intellectual property is decreased by the existance of web stie "A" because web site "A", in violation of WotC's copyright, is providing a free service that WotC seeks to gain revenue from in a subscription service and in a printed product.

Failure to enforce the copyright in this case has risk associated with it in that the value of the intellectual property is directly and measurably decreased.

In other words, their profit from DDI will be less, because some consumers would use the free service instead of subscribing to DDI.

Is that what you're saying?

 

[El Mahdi]

What is risked is the value of the copyrights. IF you will not enforce them, then the value decreases.

My post was written before I had caught up with the rest of the conversation. (My Bad - but I'm caught up now.) But, I still think you are trying to argue your way out of a mispoken statement, or just a plain mistake.

Please, don't try and use me to further this awkward endeavor.

Your very own arguments and acknowledgements say that what is being risked is the value of damages, not the value of the copyright itself. The Value of the copyright is determined by how much people want it, and how much the copyright holder is willing to license or sell it for (or how much money you can make producing products based on it - which may be what you really meant - I'm not sure).

Keep pressing this bad position all you want, but I'm pretty sure you are fighting a losing battle.


(You may quote, bait, or pursue this further all you want, but I will not respond to this part of the conversation from here on out.)


Peace.

 

[Xyxox]

In other words, their profit from DDI will be less, because some consumers would use the free service instead of subscribing to DDI.

Is that what you're saying?

Not entirely as there are multiple choices here.

I'm saying the value of the intellectual property is decreased because of thexistance of the free service that is operating in violaiton of WotC's copyrights.

The value of the intellectual property can be realized in several ways in this specific case.

1) DDI subscriptions.
2) Sales of PDF versions of the PHB (which a user could copy and paste from to produce only the needed power cards at home.
3) Power Card sales.
4) Heretofore unplanned products which leverage this intellectual property (software, wet-eraseable power sheets, who knows what, etc.).