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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 2595543" data-attributes="member: 8461">Hence why I said that it'd be a good idea to increase the damage taken from being exposed to the Plane of Fire.Assuming that it wasn't just immune to damage. Major artifacts would lose a lot of their potency if epic/immortal PCs could just whack them into nothing.If you remove immunities and replace them with high-level resistances, PCs will seek and prize them just as much as immunities, so we can say that your postulation there definately isn't true.On the other hand, replacing monsters' immunities with resistances inarguably decreases their threat-potential.Gods of higher rank, beings with immunity-breakers, major artifacts ("major artifact" is Latin for "plot device"), and the big one...damage of a type that they AREN'T immune to! Yes, there are still some of those...and all of those outs are just off the top of my head.You say it hamstrings the side that opposes creatures with immunities...I say, it makes it more challenging for them. And D&D is about escalating challenge. Heroes are made more heroic when winning is that much harder.Creativity comes from developing new ideas to overcome challenges, not from tearing down things that are slightly difficult to deal with. Likewise, immortals are immune to electricity, but epic mortals aren't, and that's half of epic/immortal gaming right there.Likewise, if a DM has a big problem with immortal PCs being too powerful due to so many immunities, there's a simple answer...don't let them become gods! A 1000th-level character can put the smack down on most deities just fine.Given that epic characters would most likely be relying on magic, which allows the disjunction possibility I outlined before, that hardly seems laughable. As for it being useless versus immortals...have you forgotten that it works on deities of lesser divine ranks? Unless your entire party is DvR 19+, they're not inherently immune anyway. And if they are that strong, it seems to make sense that they'd shrug off his power.How about that makes his electrical attacks hideously unbalanced, then? A party of mixed characters (some have electricity resistance, some do not) will quickly divide up into those who only take some of the damage, and those who take all of it. E.g., if Zeus's lightning bolts deal 800 points of damage, the characters with electricity resistance 700 are facing a moderate threat...and those without any are facing a major threat. Being a god, Zeus quickly realizes who is more hurt, and focuses on the characters who take more damage. Said PCs are now facing a disproportionally deadlier encounter.Well yeah, hence why SKR wrote the article.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I disagree, see the outs listed above. Likewise, there can be epic monsters that have god-like abilities (by this, I mean virtual divine ranks) and so can overcome divine immunities of deities with lesser ranks. See the incredible work Beyond the Gates of Hell over at DICEFREAKS for more on this.Almost none of those monsters are meant to be facing immortal PCs, just epic ones. Don't tout their being meant for something different as a flaw of the system, because it isn't.Considering that you've said immortal PCs are above epic ones, it doesn't seem odd that monsters that are merely "epic" won't threaten immortal PCs. This isn't anything immortal monsters (or epic monsters of a much higher caliber) couldn't solve.And just as obviously, a much less dangerous place when you can say the same thing about the monsters.Only if someone lets it get to the point of being infinite. DMs are not hamstrung in regards to their game being just that...their game.Enjoy!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />If you take yourself too seriously, no one will.And I'm talking about all monsters, across the board, having no immunities, and their resistances not being nearly enough to stop them from thusly becoming much too easy to kill.If we use common sense, we use immunity, we use immunity breakers, and we chose to stop at a point before it gets ridiculous, instead of having to revise the entire system.You seem to be suggesting that game designers are intentionally creating bad products to appeal to the bad gamers...which sounds rather crazy.Wow, even the first 20+ pages? Longest thread I've ever ruined!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> And the only thing we've been discussing is the part of his article specific to the question of immunities in the system. Hence why I said that.A large part of his impetus for that stance was as a reaction against infinite reversals...which seems to be lacking as true necessity to institute such a large change.It's not donkey work for the DM to approve or disapprove something a player brings to his table.I love that show.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Indeed.I've chosen to waive that entitlement...hence why I'm right.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> No, but please do point out some real world gods who only have high resistances and not immunities. And we all know that if it doesn't happen in the real world, it can NEVER happen in D&D.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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