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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 2596997" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey Alzrius matey! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Not that it hasn't been fun but we are going to have to start boiling this discussion down to the key elements. I think part of the problem is that I am trying to entertain the idea that power doesn't really have limits. But once you invite the idea of Absolutes into your game you impose limits.By the way have you had a chance to read the "Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters" yet? Two wrongs don't make a right. Why the heck would you increase the fire damage to the point where it would logically melt metal when we know that metal is not supposed to melt on the Plane of Fire in the first place (certain very hot locations being the exception). Its called the City of Brass, not the City of Fire Immune Brass.Exactly, which is why I never suggested that. What I suggested was the possibility that artifacts could be broken into pieces but that the pieces would reform unless taken and hidden away. How is resistance as powerful as an immunity?Isn't having resistances more likely to favour players being forced into making tactical decisions, since they don't add the complacency that immunities bring to the game.I'm not suggesting remove the monsters immunities and leave the PCs immunities intact! The changes would affect both sides and if anything its likely to be the PCs who feel the brunt of the changes.So we can go ahead and disregard every monster book, including the Epic Level Handbook, (and Legends of Avadnu?), and all the non-deities from the IH:Bestiary then?Heres an idea - why don't we just assume that every epic character, monster, item (etc.) has the immunity breaker, but that immunity breakers don't work on resistances - fair enough? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So its somehow harder for heroes when they are immune to virtually everything the monsters can throw at them? I fail to see how you arrive at that conclusion.An immunity is not a challenge, its the removal of a potential challenge.Rings of Universal Elemental Immunity will be considered standard equipment by the time you can afford one. Sort of takes the sting out of Immortal Gaming when you disallow PCs from becoming deities - don't you think? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I'm sorry, all the 1000th-level characters were killed by a deity using its Life or Death Salient Divine Ability. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Why would the deity even bother with disjunction when it can just cast Anti-magic Field (to which it is immune) and then just laugh at that epic PC thats much higher level than it.Isn't that option a bit limiting? I mean if the only option is to challenge the PCs with higher ranked deities (wherein the PCs immunities are removed) how is this any different from removing the immunities in the first place (except that doing the latter allows you to utilise all potential adversaries, not just higher ranked deities)!?As opposed to what? Zeus realising his lightning is useless, switches to melee, attacks each character and then concentrates upon the character he was able to hit the easiest. Is the character with the lowest AC now facing a disproportionally deadlier encounter?See two points up about why using progressively higher divine ranks (virtual or otherwise) is not the solution.We are talking about using monsters within the PCs CR bracket. However with so many immunities in play it lopsides the whole process.They are above epic PCs of the same level certainly. I never said it was a black and white situation...although I am sure you would never jump to that conclusion. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Epic is just an adjective. The problem is going to be with the situational modifiers for having so many immunities totally messing with your challenge ratings.See above for why this solution doesn't work.He who laughs last...Its not really a poignant concern for monsters. A Fire Giant having Fire Resistance 100 instead of Fire Immunity is not going to make any real difference to how challenging it is. If we use common sense we remove immunities altogether. No, I'm suggesting that once 4th Edition comes along the bulk of game designers will design for that. I find that difficult to believe. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />So do you get the luxury of answering a question with a question and I don't?</blockquote>

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