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Another Immortals Handbook thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2701772" data-attributes="member: 141"><p>I was browsing the pdf you sent me a little bit more, and I think you need a proof reader. I'm no John Cooper, but I noticed a couple of cut n paste mistakes and a few awkward sentences. There's probably a need for fresh eyes to look the pdf over.</p><p></p><p>I'm curious as to why you decided that the eldest elemental should be called Satan as well as Sin. It seems to me that if you are choosing esoteric names, Ahriman would do better as the material principle of evil. Satan would be better suited as the universe's Chief Special Prosecutor, the head of the hierarchy of strict justice, or some such. Though if you wanted to link a principle of evil with the elemental plane, you could do worse than associate Iblis with Efreet and the plane of fire.</p><p></p><p>I also wonder if there is a different name that you could use for guardian angels than egregori. I recognize the latter term as referring to the embodiment of the collective subconsciousness of a group (sometimes a person); more exactly, a personification of the group's negative drives and desires. I'm thinking of the Anonymous <u>Meditations on the Tarot</u> ("Anonymous" is Valentin Tomberg, an Anthroposophist. Egregores are discussed in the chapter on the Devil). Now that I think of it, Tomberg mentions that some esoteric groups believe (falsely, in his opinion) that the "genius" of an organization could be benevolent, a kind of guardian angel. Is that the reasoning behind the term?</p><p></p><p>Oh, and about the 4th dimension. You identify the ethereal with the past, the astral with the present, and the plane of shadow with the future. I've always thought of the ethereal as associated with the elemental planes, the astral with the outer planes, and shadow with alternate prime material planes. Is there some time related correspondence that I'm missing? I guess the slow time on the astral is kinda like an eternal present, but other than that I don't see it. I suppose Dream should be in there somewhere, too.</p><p></p><p>Another question- the whole Kosmic Localization thing. If I understand it correctly, two completely separate primes might have very similar cosmologies- each has a Hell, for example, with Asmodeus in charge, Baalzebul and Mephistopheles jockeying for position, the whole bit. But these would be parallel hells, each on a different (approximately planet sized) patch of the plane. Correct?</p><p></p><p>The primes might have difference in their cosmologies, of course. Maybe one is ruled by the Norse Pantheon, and the other has the Greek Pantheon. Neither set of gods knows about the other (because of kosmic localization) although both would know about the devils.</p><p></p><p>Now suppose the two primes come into contact. Some adventurers discover the secrets of shadow walking, or long lost portals from a pre-humanoid history. If I understand Kosmic Localization, the respective pantheons will start to "see" each other. Zeus will become aware of Odin, and vice versa. The two hells will notice each other.</p><p></p><p>Now I can see how two distinct pantheons might discover each other, but I can't visualize two more or less identical hells coming into contact. Each of the dukes of hell will discover he has a double?</p><p></p><p>How much "mixing" is required? Does the first traveller from one world to the other make the respective pantheons and hells immediately aware? If this guy dies (or if the long lost portal is lost again- or destroyed!) do the two kosmic localizations separate again? I'm just having some trouble wrapping my mind around it.</p><p></p><p>Of course, this question is left wholly unresolved in the "standard" cosmology- do all the primes share a common hell? But if you do resolve the problem, I want to see how the solution works.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 2701772, member: 141"] I was browsing the pdf you sent me a little bit more, and I think you need a proof reader. I'm no John Cooper, but I noticed a couple of cut n paste mistakes and a few awkward sentences. There's probably a need for fresh eyes to look the pdf over. I'm curious as to why you decided that the eldest elemental should be called Satan as well as Sin. It seems to me that if you are choosing esoteric names, Ahriman would do better as the material principle of evil. Satan would be better suited as the universe's Chief Special Prosecutor, the head of the hierarchy of strict justice, or some such. Though if you wanted to link a principle of evil with the elemental plane, you could do worse than associate Iblis with Efreet and the plane of fire. I also wonder if there is a different name that you could use for guardian angels than egregori. I recognize the latter term as referring to the embodiment of the collective subconsciousness of a group (sometimes a person); more exactly, a personification of the group's negative drives and desires. I'm thinking of the Anonymous [U]Meditations on the Tarot[/U] ("Anonymous" is Valentin Tomberg, an Anthroposophist. Egregores are discussed in the chapter on the Devil). Now that I think of it, Tomberg mentions that some esoteric groups believe (falsely, in his opinion) that the "genius" of an organization could be benevolent, a kind of guardian angel. Is that the reasoning behind the term? Oh, and about the 4th dimension. You identify the ethereal with the past, the astral with the present, and the plane of shadow with the future. I've always thought of the ethereal as associated with the elemental planes, the astral with the outer planes, and shadow with alternate prime material planes. Is there some time related correspondence that I'm missing? I guess the slow time on the astral is kinda like an eternal present, but other than that I don't see it. I suppose Dream should be in there somewhere, too. Another question- the whole Kosmic Localization thing. If I understand it correctly, two completely separate primes might have very similar cosmologies- each has a Hell, for example, with Asmodeus in charge, Baalzebul and Mephistopheles jockeying for position, the whole bit. But these would be parallel hells, each on a different (approximately planet sized) patch of the plane. Correct? The primes might have difference in their cosmologies, of course. Maybe one is ruled by the Norse Pantheon, and the other has the Greek Pantheon. Neither set of gods knows about the other (because of kosmic localization) although both would know about the devils. Now suppose the two primes come into contact. Some adventurers discover the secrets of shadow walking, or long lost portals from a pre-humanoid history. If I understand Kosmic Localization, the respective pantheons will start to "see" each other. Zeus will become aware of Odin, and vice versa. The two hells will notice each other. Now I can see how two distinct pantheons might discover each other, but I can't visualize two more or less identical hells coming into contact. Each of the dukes of hell will discover he has a double? How much "mixing" is required? Does the first traveller from one world to the other make the respective pantheons and hells immediately aware? If this guy dies (or if the long lost portal is lost again- or destroyed!) do the two kosmic localizations separate again? I'm just having some trouble wrapping my mind around it. Of course, this question is left wholly unresolved in the "standard" cosmology- do all the primes share a common hell? But if you do resolve the problem, I want to see how the solution works. [/QUOTE]
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