Another New Magic System

Aazenius

First Post
First, let me say I was inspired by this thread here: , but it is changed enough to warrant it's own thread.

These rules have been playtested by my players.
NOTE: These rules have undergone a few revisions since posting them here. The rules below are the current version that I use.

Variant Magic Version 1.50

Under this system, characters must still prepare their spells ahead of time. However, they no longer have a set amount of times they can cast a spell per day. It also allows them to be bold and attempt to add meta magic feats (if they have any meta magic feats), making their spells more powerful beyond normal level limits, but a much greater risk to themselves.

First things first...
Any character that can cast magic now has a Magic modifier. This modifier is similar to the Attack modifier, but only applies to casting a spell. As the caster gains levels their Magic modifier automatically goes up.

Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers and Wizards - have a magic modifier similar to a Fighters attack modifier. As they level their Magic modifier equals their level, 1 for 1. So a 10th level Wizard would have a +10 Magic modifier.

Bards - have a magic modifier equal to 3/4 their level, similar to a Clerics Attack modifier progression. So a 10th level Bard has a +7 Magic modifier.

Paladins and Rangers - have a magic modifier equal to 1/2 their level, similar to a Wizards Attack modifier. So an 10th level Paladin has a +5 Magic modifier.

Each caster adds their Primary ability used in casting spells to their Magic modifier. So a 10th level Wizard, with an Intelligence modifier of +4, would have a +14 Magic modifier

Whenever a character cast a spell they must make a caster check.

Caster modifier = Magic modifier + Primary spell casting ability modifier + misc.

Caster DC = 10 + caster level + meta magic feats (if any)

For most spells the caster level will only equal the level when the spell first becomes available. For example the spell Wish has a caster level +17, because that is when it first becomes available to a Wizard. Cure Critical Wounds has a caster level +7 the level it first becomes available. That number never goes up, even if it is cast by a level 20 Cleric. So a CCW (4d8+20) is still only a +7 caster level spell. Spells that have damage dice based on caster level, (fireball, cone of cold, etc.) have a caster level equal to however many damage dice the caster the caster wants to use. So a 10th level Fireball has a +10 caster level modifier. A caster may never have more damage dice then their caster level, UNLESS they are using a meta-magic feat to do so.

Meta Magic Feats now allow a character to go beyond their normal caster level limits but a substantial risk to themselves. All meta magic feats no longer increase a spells', spell slot, instead it adds a modifier to the Caster DC.

Code:
[B]Feat            DC increased by[/B]
Empower Spell     +6
Enlarge Spell     +3
Extend Spell      +3
Heighten Spell    +2 for each caster level the spell is increased by (This is the only way a fireball spell cast by a level 7 wizard, could have its damage dice increased to 10d6)
Maximize Spell   +9
Quicken Spell    +12
Silent Spell     +3
Still Spell      +3
Widen Spell      +9
Twin Spell       +12

I want to cast my spell now!
Make a Caster check, using the DC above. If you succeed on the check, the spell goes off as planned. Essentially as long as you succeed at Caster checks you could cast all day long.
However, eventually a Caster check will fail.

When a Caster check fails or the player rolls 8 or lower on the d20, the caster takes a "hit". (Do not confuse this with hitpoints). Each time the caster fails they continue to take hits. These hits do not go away until the caster has rested for 8 hours.

It's simple. A failed check equals a hit. So while a caster can cast all day long, if they start to fail, magic will take its toll on their mind and they will grow tired.

The Other Rules...

Critical success. If a character rolls a natural 20, they threaten a critical success with a spell. They must roll again. If the second roll equals the Caster DC or better, the spell has a critical success. All numerical factors such as hit points cured or damage dealt is doubled. This does not affect duration, range, or anything else. Spells that boost ability modifiers do not benefit from this. All spells that have a critical success also have their Saving throw DC increased by +2. A natural 20 is also an automatic success.

Critical failure. If a natural 1 is rolled two things happen. First the caster marks off a hit on their sheet. Second, the caster takes subdual damage equal to the caster level of the spell x2. Example: If a 5th level cleric rolled a 1 on their caster check when trying to cast cure light wounds they would take 2 points of subdual damage. (Caster level 1 x 2) Cure Light wounds is only a caster level 1 even though it is cast by a 5th level cleric. Why? Because cure light wounds is first allowed at level 1, and it's healing die is never greater then 1. If a spell gains extra dice at higher caster levels then the caster level is equal to the damage dice. So a fireball cast by a level 10 wizard would have a caster level 10. If the wizard rolled a 1 on his caster roll this spell would cause a backlash doing 20 points of subdual damage (10x2).

Rolling an 8 or lower on the d20. If a caster rolls a 8 or lower on the d20 they take a hit. However, as long as the roll is not a natural 1, their spell still goes off. It just so happens that casting this spell is more tiring for the caster. A sorcerer and bard take a hit on a roll of 5 or lower, as magic comes more naturally to them.
(Optional) In addition to taking a hit, the caster takes subdual damage equal to the caster level of the spell. Example: An 8th level wizard (Int 18) cast Mage Armor, but rolls a 8. The caster check was DC 11 (10 +1 caster level of spell) His spell succeeds, but it is more draining for him then normal. He takes a hit, and also receives 1 point of subdual damage.

The reason behind taking a hit on an 8 or lower. This does a few things. By having it that high, it gives a caster a 40% chance of taking a hit each time they cast a spell. This artificially keeps casters from casting fireball over and over and over, all day long, non stop. Because at some point they will roll 8 or lower, causing them to take a hit. Once their Mana Hit Pool has been exhausted (see below) then the caster will find it more dangerous to keep casting. This also prevents a level 20 Wizard with an Int 26, from casting Meteor Swarm over and over without much chance at failure. In this system, such a wizard only needs to roll a 2 or higher to succeed at casting that spell. He essentially could cast Meteor Swarm over and over. But his chance at taking a hit is pretty good, and eventually his Mana Hit Pool will take some hits.

Failing by 10 or more.
If a caster attempts a spell but fails their caster check DC by 10 or more, Three things happen:
  • They take a hit
  • Take subdual damage equal to caster level of spell cast
  • Must succeed on a Fortitude save DC 15 or become fatigued (-2 Str and Dex) If character is already fatigued, then they become exhausted. If they are already exhausted they fall unconscious.

Failing by 20 or more.
If a caster attempts a spell but fails their caster check DC by 20 or more, Four things happen:
  • They take a hit
  • They take subdual damage equal to caster level x 2 (as if they rolled a 1)
  • They are stunned for 1 round
  • They must succeed at a Fortitude save DC 25 or immediately become Fatigued (-2 Str and Dex). If they are already Fatigued they become Exhausted, if they are Exhausted they fall unconscious.
NOTE: Failing by 20 or more is worse then rolling a 1. The only way a caster would fail by 20 or more is if they attempt to extend their magic beyond normal means using meta magic feats.

NOTE: Undead casters such as Liches cannot become fatigued, take subdual damage or become stunned by failed results (One more reason why wizards would strive to become a Lich)

Mana Hit Pool A Caster has a Mana Hit Pool equal to 10 + Primary casting ability modifier. A Wizard (Int 18) would have a MHP of 14. Once this pool is exhausted the caster immediately becomes fatigued. They may still continue to cast, but doing so is dangerous. A caster with a MHP of 0 that attempts to cast a spell must also make a Fortitude save DC 15 +1/for each time a caster attempts a spell after their MHP hits 0. If they fail their Fortitude save they become Exhausted (if they are already Exhausted they instead fall unconscious). Another failed result causes the caster to fall to the ground unconscious. Remember, if a character is already fatigued when their MHP falls to 0 they instead become exhausted.

What happens if a caster has a MHP 0 and fails their caster check DC? The casters Hit Points drop to 0 and the caster must make a Fortitude save DC 15 or fall unconscious. If the caster fails their save they fall into a light coma. Nothing short of a Healing spell can wake them. Each hour, the caster may attempt to awaken from their coma. They must make a Fortitude save DC 15. If they fail, they must wait another hour. Casters that are unconscious gain Hit Points back at a rate of 1 per caster level per hour. They do not gain any Mana Hit Pool points back, unless they are unconscious for 8 or more hours. Caster that awaken before 8 hours rest are fatigued.

Sorcerers. The sorcerer has a slight advantage when casting more powerful magic. Starting at level 4, they gain a +1 inherent bonus to their Caster Level modifier. This goes up every 4 levels, so +2 at level 8, +3 at level 12, etc.

Scrolls, potions, wands, staves, and rods. Under this system, when using these items you do not need to make a Caster check. This gives them a slight advantage over normal magic.

Spell like abilities. Creatures with these abilities do not need to make a caster check. It is activated mentally, and does not have the normal penalties of spell casting.

Spell Focus (Wizard). A wizard that chooses to specialize in one school gains a +2 caster bonus to his caster modifier when casting spells from that school.

(Optional Rule)
A caster may elect to cast a spell with a casting time of "one standard action" as a full round action instead. Doing this gives them a +2 bonus to their Caster Modifier. The entire round is spent casting the spell, then at the beginning of their next turn they may cast that spell as a free action, if they succeed at their caster check.

(Optional Rule)
Casters may choose to take 10 on any spell that has a casting time longer then 1 round, and the spell does not cause damage or heal a creature.

(Optional Rule)
Whenever a caster rolls their Caster check, that total is also the Save DC by which the opponent must succeed. Example: A 5th level Wizard (Int 18) cast fireball, he rolls a 9. He adds his Magic modifier +5 (5th level wizard), and Intelligence modifier +4, for a total reflex save of 18. Under this rule, saves will be harder to make, and items that offer resistance save bonuses will be more useful.

(Optional Rule)
Armor. Armor no longer gives a % chance of failure when casting arcane spells. It now provides a Caster check penalty. These rules may make it more attractive to some players who play an arcane caster/fighter type. Note: If a caster is wearing Mithril armor reduce the penalty by -4. A level 20 sorcerer in mithril full plate has a -5 penalty on spells.

Code:
[B]Armor              Penalty[/B]
Padded               -3    
Leather              -4
Studded Leather      -5
Chain Shirt          -6
Hide                 -6
Scale Mail           -7
Chainmail            -8
Breastplate          -7
Splint mail          -10
Banded mail          -9
Half-Plate           -10
Full Plate           -9


Characters that rest for 8 hours remove all hits, and start with a clean slate.

Lastly...
Finally a level 7th wizard (Int 18) can cast a maximized, quickened fireball, but a very high chance of failure. His Caster modifier is a +11. His Caster DC 38 (10 + 7 (damage dice) + 9 maximized +12 quickened). Yes, he must roll a natural 20. It is a huge risk. If he fails he could fall unconscious.

What do you guys think?
 
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the major problem I see with this system is that any time you make a character's abilities dependant upon a die roll, they can feel worthless if they have a bad dice night. While this can happen to any character in D&D, this is the only situation so far that makes you more and more likely to fail the more you fail. I understand the need for the fatigue limiter but just wanted to point that out.

Now questions:

how does spell preparation work?

is there a maximum spell level or can a 1st level cleric attempt to cast cure serious wounds?

if they can't attempt higher level spells, then the chance of failure becomes almost nill:
figure that a caster is always going to have a prime stat as high as they can get. if you use the elite array, that means a 16 (+3). This means a caster modifier of +4 at 1st level. Which is a success on a 6 or above. The only way they can fail by 5 or more is by also critically failing. At 2nd level, this becomes a 5 or more and then the can only critically fail.

Take a character like an aasimar cleric or sorcerer and they can start with a Wis or Cha of 20 meaning that they have a +6 caster mod, which means success on a 4 or higher (3 or higher at 2nd level). Because their magic bonus increases at the same rate that the DC mod does, they will never suffer any real chance of failing.

By 10th level, with a +4 stat boost item and 2 stat increases, even the elite array, this allows a casting stat of 22 (+6) and a casting mod of 16 (18 if its a sorcerer and this is assuming no bonuses for things like spell focus) which guarantees any low level spell (only 5% chance of failure) [these could be casting mod 18 and 20 if the character started with an 18 casting stat, or 20 and 22 if it were an aasimar sorcerer or cleric]. In the last case, with an aasimar sorcerer or cleric casting a cantrip or 1st level spell, even rolling a 1 would not cause a failure (20 or 22 - 10 [crit failure] = 10 or 12 which is success).

Overall, I like the math better than many systems out there, and I like how metamagic works. But the truth is, that the numbers end up too easy to optimize for my taste. As a caster, I could throw metamagic on my spells all day, especially the low level ones without worry. Heck, even a quickened 0, 1st, or 2nd would be a piece of cake by 10th level. So I could cast 2 spells every round with no chance of failure on the regular one and only a small chance on the quickened.

Just my thoughts. YMMV.

DC
 

Out of curiosity, how does a sorcerer differ from a wizard in this system, aside from getting fewer spells known and less feats?
 

DreamChaser said:
the major problem I see with this system is that any time you make a character's abilities dependant upon a die roll, they can feel worthless if they have a bad dice night. While this can happen to any character in D&D, this is the only situation so far that makes you more and more likely to fail the more you fail. I understand the need for the fatigue limiter but just wanted to point that out.

The die roll represents their character trying to weave and shape magic to do their will. Lower level characters will have a much harder time with it, while higher level characters will become masters of magic.


Now questions:

how does spell preparation work?

is there a maximum spell level or can a 1st level cleric attempt to cast cure serious wounds?

if they can't attempt higher level spells, then the chance of failure becomes almost nill:
figure that a caster is always going to have a prime stat as high as they can get. if you use the elite array, that means a 16 (+3). This means a caster modifier of +4 at 1st level. Which is a success on a 6 or above. The only way they can fail by 5 or more is by also critically failing. At 2nd level, this becomes a 5 or more and then the can only critically fail.

Take a character like an aasimar cleric or sorcerer and they can start with a Wis or Cha of 20 meaning that they have a +6 caster mod, which means success on a 4 or higher (3 or higher at 2nd level). Because their magic bonus increases at the same rate that the DC mod does, they will never suffer any real chance of failing.

The way I have it set up right now, a character can only cast what they can prepare. I did not change the way spells are prepared, so a first level cleric can only cast cure light wounds. True, a min-maxer will rarely fail on casting spells, and some tweaking might need to be done in that case. I wouldn't have a problem moving the caster DC to 15 + caster level. However, in a game without min maxers, I'd stick with 10 + caster level. We did 15 + caster level and the bard in our group could hardly get a spell off.

By 10th level, with a +4 stat boost item and 2 stat increases, even the elite array, this allows a casting stat of 22 (+6) and a casting mod of 16 (18 if its a sorcerer and this is assuming no bonuses for things like spell focus) which guarantees any low level spell (only 5% chance of failure) [these could be casting mod 18 and 20 if the character started with an 18 casting stat, or 20 and 22 if it were an aasimar sorcerer or cleric]. In the last case, with an aasimar sorcerer or cleric casting a cantrip or 1st level spell, even rolling a 1 would not cause a failure (20 or 22 - 10 [crit failure] = 10 or 12 which is success).

This could be a problem. But if your using the spell point system in the UA book, a 10th level Aasimar sorcerer with a Charisma 22, could cast over 100 0 and 1st level spells. Which could happen here. I have no problem with changing the rules to read that a roll of 1 is an automatic failure, and the caster takes a -10 penalty on their caster level check. So at the very least a roll of 1 still causes the caster to take a hit.

Overall, I like the math better than many systems out there, and I like how metamagic works. But the truth is, that the numbers end up too easy to optimize for my taste. As a caster, I could throw metamagic on my spells all day, especially the low level ones without worry. Heck, even a quickened 0, 1st, or 2nd would be a piece of cake by 10th level. So I could cast 2 spells every round with no chance of failure on the regular one and only a small chance on the quickened.

I may have to redo how much each meta magic feat adds to the Caster DC. For now I would just add a +2 to each meta magic feat DC modifier.

Quickened becomes +10
Maximized becomes +8

Thanks for your feedback.
 

Fieari said:
Out of curiosity, how does a sorcerer differ from a wizard in this system, aside from getting fewer spells known and less feats?

Sorcerers gain a +1 inherent bonus every 4 levels. This allows them to cast magic longer without worry of getting fatigued as quickly. The inherent bonus also allows a sorcerer to use meta magic better then a wizard. (Granted they will have to take the feats). A level 20 Sorcerer has a +25 magic modifier before adding the sorcerers charisma modifier. A level 20 Wizard only has a +20 magic modifier. That +5 difference is like getting a free meta magic feat attached to your spell.
 

I think this is a pretty nice idea. It snaps into the existing system without alot of extensive changes, ties into the Unearthed Arcana magic rating system (which replaces caster level), and can be customized quite a bit. I'll have to play with this soon.

Cheers
Nell.
 

More problems can be seen in the 'lesser casters.' To keep with your 10th level pattern, a paladin would have a +5 base score and a +5 from charisma seems pretty appropriate. He is only supposed to be casting 2nd level spells, so the DC is 13. Under this system he is probably changing from his 2 slots per day practically unlimited. Even with an auto-fail on 1's, he can cast 60 cure light wounds (d8+5) before he should fail 3 on average. That seems a little powerful.

Likewise, as you go up in levels the lesser utility spells become too powerful. Invis is a base DC of 13, 21 quickened. A very charismatic sorcerer can expect to cast unlimited invisibilities as free actions when they get into the lower teen levels.

I like the system and think it could really flesh out. However, a lot of its attractiveness lies in its simplicity, and that simplicity makes it abusable.
 

Hodgie said:
I like the system and think it could really flesh out. However, a lot of its attractiveness lies in its simplicity, and that simplicity makes it abusable.

I agree. I'd like to play around with an "increasing difficulty" option (the more you cast in a day, the higher the DC goes), and/or some kind of damage (I'm planning on using the "armor converts lethal to nonlethal damage" option from UA, and this might dovetail well with that).

Cheers
Nell.
 

I changed the spell failure to a natural 1 or 2. This means the caster has a 10% chance of failing anytime they cast a spell. This can be lowered to a natural 1 if the DM allows a feat that lowers the failure chance. I know that a 10% chance failure everytime a spell is cast may frighten some casters from wanting to use this. But keep in mind that casters can cast all day long as long as they don't start failing a lot of caster checks.

Added rules for spell like abilities, rules for casting in armor, and wizard specialization.

Added meta magic feats and the Caster Check penalties associated with them.

I also changed the way the Fatigue hits work. Allowing the character to take 6 hits before becoming fatigued (instead of 3). However after a character is exhausted, 1 more failure causes the caster to fall unconscious.
 
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Hodgie said:
More problems can be seen in the 'lesser casters.' To keep with your 10th level pattern, a paladin would have a +5 base score and a +5 from charisma seems pretty appropriate. He is only supposed to be casting 2nd level spells, so the DC is 13. Under this system he is probably changing from his 2 slots per day practically unlimited. Even with an auto-fail on 1's, he can cast 60 cure light wounds (d8+5) before he should fail 3 on average. That seems a little powerful.

Likewise, as you go up in levels the lesser utility spells become too powerful. Invis is a base DC of 13, 21 quickened. A very charismatic sorcerer can expect to cast unlimited invisibilities as free actions when they get into the lower teen levels.

I like the system and think it could really flesh out. However, a lot of its attractiveness lies in its simplicity, and that simplicity makes it abusable.

With the changes I have made, all casters would now have a 10% chance of failure. This may prevent Paladins and Rangers from casting too many spells per day.

Quickened Invisibility now has a DC 25. A level 13 Aazimar Sorcerer with a Charisma modifier +9 and the sorcerer's inherent bonus of +3 would give a +25 bonus. They essentially could cast quickened invisibility each round, but they have a 10% chance of failing each time they try it (failure on a natural 1 or 2). I can only see this being used to escape combat, or perhaps make a sneak attack if they are playing an arcane trickster.
 
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