Doc Eldritch
First Post
While I am quite pleased overall with Pathfinder, one thing I have noticed has been a bit...lacking. And that is the fighter. While it is a much more powerful class than it used to be, it still seems to be missing some "oomph", especially as they increase in levels.
So, I am working on some ideas for beefing up the fighter, to make him more equal to some of the other classes, while trying to avoid stepping on any toes of other classes. This means avoiding "spell like" effects (such as To9S did), or adding extra feats (they already have enough), or anything similar.
What I did hit upon was doing something with a fighter's training. Fighters would tend to train in particular styles of fighting, getting better and better at a particular style, or perhaps dabbling in several. While some of this can be done with feats, I have also been working on an idea for "training paths". Something that the fighter gets starting at second level, and improving from there, but able to branch out to other paths of training as desired.
Since it is a pretty long document for posting on the forums, I am instead including a link to the GoogleDocs file I wrote it up in. I am hoping that folks with familiarity with the Pathfinder (and 3.5) system will take a look and let me know what they think. It is aimed at the Pathfinder fighter, so some rules bits reference things like Combat Maneuver Bonus and the like. Anyways, please take a look if you would and feel free to give feedback!
Fighter Training Styles
Hmm, sorry for the post not being formatted to be easier on the eyes. OpenOffice did not want to paste here correctly it seems! Still the above link will show it more easily (it is a googledoc, should just pop up without a need for a download).
Training Styles
Fighters train most of their lives to be as deadly as possible with their chosen weapons, but most also train intensively in a particular style of combat. While some dabble with various styles, others focus on one style to the exclusion of others. The type of weapons used might vary, but many of the styles have some things in common. These changes are meant both to give fighters a bit more flavour, and to address what I see as a slight weakness in the class.
Starting at level 2, a fighter can select a fighting style that he has trained in, learning the Novice rank of skill with it. At level five, and every 3 levels thereafter, he can again choose training in a fighting style. This can be the same style, in which case he gains the Journeyman (or Master or Grandmaster, as he goes along) rank, or a brand new style.
Defender Style
The fighter who trains in this style concentrates mostly on personal defense. If an attacker can not strike you and damage you, your blows do not need to be the strongest, or the most accurate, as you will eventually wear him down with little injury of your own.
Novice: Most defenders prefer to use a shield. They are cheap, highly effective, and easy to learn. This level of training takes that a step further. The novice has learned to use his shield more effectively, granting him a +1 AC bonus on top of its normal bonus (so a shield that would normally be a +1 shield bonus to AC, is instead a +2 bonus). In addition, he has learned to effectively use it against ranged attacks. By using a move action, he can position the shield to provide cover to himself. Light shields provide partial soft cover, and heavy shields provide soft cover. If the fighter also has Journeyman Protector training, he may instead provide that cover to an adjacent ally.
Journeyman: Armor use is important to a fighter, and it is the rare fighter that goes unarmored. The journeyman defender has learned to turn his armor to its best advantage, knowing exactly how the armor wears, slopes, and responds to impacts. This is reflected in giving him a DR of 1/adamantine.
Master: The defender by this point has fought a variety of foes, in many situations, and has become skilled at anticipating attacks. He gains a +1 bonus to AC for every 5 class levels of Fighter he has. This is an insight bonus, and does stack with other insight bonuses.
Grand Master: The warrior has become so skilled at avoiding attacks and mitigating damage, that his armor and defenses almost feel like a second skin, enabling him to react to blows the instant they happen, lessening their impact. Once per combat, the fighter may use his armor bonus (including shield bonus, but NOT including dodge bonuses, insight bonuses, etc. Only the bonus from the armor/shield itself) as DR or Resistance vs a single attack. This choice may be made after an attack hits, but before the DM announces any damage done by it. He can do this once per day at level 11, twice at level 16, and three times per day at level 20, but no more than once per combat encounter.
Protector Style
The fighter who trains in this style concentrates on defending others, providing a shield of flesh and metal between his allies and damage. Concentrating on toughness and being able to react to threats, he is able to make sure that enemies must pass over his body to harm those he protects.
Novice: The fighter has trained himself to react instantly to threats to his allies. Once per round, he can interpose himself between an attack and an adjacent ally. Against ranged attacks or area of effect attacks, this provides cover to the ally. Against melee attacks, he takes any blow that would have landed on the ally. The attacker still makes the attack against the ally's modified AC (for cover), but if it hits, the melee attack hits the fighter instead. He may do this one additional time per round for every rank in this style he has past the first.
Journeyman: Shield use is just as important to a Protector as it is to a fighter training in the Defender style. They just use the shield a bit differently. By using a move action, he may give an ally a shield bonus to AC equal to his own (the Protector does not lose the shield bonus, he is able to react to protect both parties). If he is a Novice in the Defender style, he may also provide cover as listed above to the ally.
Master: The fighter has learned to shrug off pain and minor injuries taken in the defense of others. When using the Novice ability of this style, he gains DR 3/adamantine. In addition, ranged attacks that would have struck the ally now strike the Protector instead (while using the novice ability).
Grand Master: Sometimes you just need to get something's attention and keep it, so it does not squish that poor merchant over there. At this rank of training, the fighter has learned how best to get up in the face of a variety of opponents and make himself more of a nuisance than anything else. He makes a CMB roll against, the target's Will save (simply add 10 to the target's will save bonus to get the DC). If successful, the target temporarily forgets about whichever ally within 30 feet that the protector chooses. This only lasts until the ally does something to call attention to itself, such as attacking or casting a spell. Simple movement however, or bandaging wounds does not draw attention to the ally. He may only does this once per combat for a single ally, regardless of success.
Harrying Style
This fighter has learned early on that some foes are simply more swift or agile than he is. And that the best way to fight them, is to limit their movement and injure them in just the right fashion to keep them from getting too far away.
Novice: The novice harrier is learning how to keep up with foes. Whenever a foe takes a 5 foot step, the harrier may, as an immediate action, also take a 5 foot step that keeps him adjacent to the target. He may only do this once per round.
Journeyman: The harrier is learning more effectively how to slow a foe's movement. He may make a CMB check, that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If successful, the target's movement rate is cut in half for a number of rounds equal to the harrier's strength bonus. In addition, a target that tries to Withdraw provokes an attack of opportunity from the harrier (normally, Withdrawing does not provoke AoOs).
Master: At this level of training, the harrier is starting to deal with foes with more...unusual...modes of movement, such as flying, burrowing, and the like. However, he is learning to deal with them, and keep them where he and his allies can pound on them. He can make a CMB against the foe, that DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity. However, if the attack is successful, the foe is unable to use a single mode of movement, chosen by the harrier for a number of rounds equal to his strength bonus.
Grand Master: The harrier is a master of keeping foes exactly where he wants them. When using the Master level ability, he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity. Also he can interrupt foes that attempt more magical methods of escape, such as teleports or plane shifts. Even as an innate, supernatural ability, the harrier can make a special CMB attack as an AoO against adjacent foes that attempt such movement. Success means they must either accept a hit that is an automatic critical hit from the harrier, or abort the attempted escape.
Juggernaut Style
Sometimes, what really counts in a fight is how much armor you are wearing. Those who train in this style take that somewhat to the extreme. Rarely seen in anything less bulky than medium armor, they tend to prefer heavier armors, and especially full suits of enclosed metal and mail. Surprisingly, they are not as clumsy or slow as one might expect.
Novice: Training with weights, armor, and lugging heavy things around has enabled the fighter to better deal with the load his armor puts on him. In fact, he tends to actually move a bit faster while wearing it than not for some reason. While in medium or heavy armor, the fighter gains +5' to his movement rate (this is before any armor penalties). He also gains a bit more from wearing armor, increasing the AC of medium armor by 1 and heavy armor by 2.
Journeyman: Metal protects. This is an adage drilled into those trained in this style from the beginning, and the journeyman is starting to learn how true this is. At the start of his turn, he can trade any amount of AC bonus his armor provides him for an equal amount of DR */adamantine. This lasts until the beginning of his next turn. For example, a fighter wearing Splint Mail has a +7 AC bonus from the armor. On his turn, he could trade any amount of that AC bonus, up to 7, for an equal amount of DR/adamantine.
Master: A good defense can be an excellent offense, as the master of this style has learned. The weight of heavy armor adds power to blows, making him near to unstoppable. He may add his AC bonus from armor to all damage done in melee. In addition, he can add that same bonus to his CMB when using Bull Rush and Overrun maneuvers.
Grand Master: The true master of this style has found that his armor is nearly impervious to standard foes. The fighter gains a bonus of +2 DR/adamantine. While that is in effect at all times, it also stacks with any similar bonuses, either from items or from the Journeyman training, unlike most DR.
Whirling Death
The adage that speed kills is most apt for the fighter trained in this style. Hit your foes hard and fast, and down them before they know you were there. Whether using two weapons at once, a more exotic dual weapon, a single swift blade, or even a spear whirling and jabbing, this fighter has learned to press the attack with haste and strength.
Novice: While hitting your foe quickly is important, even these fighters do not neglect the benefits of a good defense. The quickly moving weapons they use and swift movements they take enable them to parry and dodge blows with ease. A novice of this style has learned to avoid and parry incoming attacks, giving him a +1 dodge bonus to AC. For each rank of training in this style, that bonus increases again by +1, to the maximum of +4 at Grand Master. In addition, if the fighter takes a move action this round, he gains a bonus equal to the dodge bonus he receives from this rank to his to hit and damage with melee weapons.
Journeyman: The journeyman has learned to hamper foes with speed and unpredictability. As such, he gains one additional Attack of Opportunity each round (which may stack with feats that grant more), and if he is using two weapons at once, or a double weapon, he can make any AoOs with both.
Master: The master of the style has learned that even the most well protected foe will fall to quick and steady strikes, wearing away at his defenses. As such, the fighter can make a CMB, which if successful, reduces the target's AC by 1, with an additional -1 reduction per 5 points his CMB roll exceeds the target's CMD by.
Grand Master: The fighter has become so deadly with his weapons, that they strike harder than those wielded by an untrained warrior. Any weapon he has that he has the Weapon Focus feat in does damage as if it was a size larger than normal.
Patient Tactician
While solid offense and solid defense have their place, the fighters that train in this style believe that there is a time and place for both, the trick is knowing when to be on the offensive and when to be on the defensive. Such training also helps them excel as battlefield commanders, giving them a keen eye for the ebb and flow of battle.
Novice: The fighter's training in this style has sharpened his senses while in battle, enabling him to see openings that others might miss. As such, when he uses the Aid Another action in combat, he is more effective, increasing the bonus by +1 per 5 points his attack roll exceeds the AC of 10. This is limited however to a maximum extra bonus of his Int bonus.
Journeyman: Having studied as many styles of combat as he can, the journeyman fighter is able to predict an opponent's actions. He gains a +2 Insight bonus to AC, and an additional +1 bonus for each rank past Journeyman in this style that he gains. If he also fights an opponent for 3 rounds, he is able to predict weaknesses in his stance and form, giving him the same bonus to hit against that opponent. The to hit bonus only lasts for that fight, however.
Master: The fighter's training and sharp eye have increased to such a degree that he is able to spot gaps in an opponent's armor that he and allies can take advantage of. He gains an insight bonus to damage equal to 2 points per rank in this style on his own attacks, both melee and ranged. In addition, he can point out these same flaws to allies, and when using the Aid Another action, may give the bonus as extra damage instead of to hit or AC. As a final benefit of his training at this rank, when using Aid Another, he can also split the bonus he provides between AC, Attack, and damage. His bonus is also no longer limited to a maximum of his Int bonus.
Grand Master: Opponents weaknesses and openings are glaring windows to the grand master of this style. As a fight goes on, he is able to slowly open up the opponent's defenses, eventually giving him a hole to deliver a massive attack. For each round he fights a specific opponent, he gains a special insight point. At any point during the fight, he can spend these points on a single attack. The attack has a bonus to hit equal to the number of insight points and does +1d6 damage per insight point. The points reset to zero after he makes this attack, if he stops combat, or if he engages another foe in combat.
So, I am working on some ideas for beefing up the fighter, to make him more equal to some of the other classes, while trying to avoid stepping on any toes of other classes. This means avoiding "spell like" effects (such as To9S did), or adding extra feats (they already have enough), or anything similar.
What I did hit upon was doing something with a fighter's training. Fighters would tend to train in particular styles of fighting, getting better and better at a particular style, or perhaps dabbling in several. While some of this can be done with feats, I have also been working on an idea for "training paths". Something that the fighter gets starting at second level, and improving from there, but able to branch out to other paths of training as desired.
Since it is a pretty long document for posting on the forums, I am instead including a link to the GoogleDocs file I wrote it up in. I am hoping that folks with familiarity with the Pathfinder (and 3.5) system will take a look and let me know what they think. It is aimed at the Pathfinder fighter, so some rules bits reference things like Combat Maneuver Bonus and the like. Anyways, please take a look if you would and feel free to give feedback!
Fighter Training Styles
Hmm, sorry for the post not being formatted to be easier on the eyes. OpenOffice did not want to paste here correctly it seems! Still the above link will show it more easily (it is a googledoc, should just pop up without a need for a download).
Training Styles
Fighters train most of their lives to be as deadly as possible with their chosen weapons, but most also train intensively in a particular style of combat. While some dabble with various styles, others focus on one style to the exclusion of others. The type of weapons used might vary, but many of the styles have some things in common. These changes are meant both to give fighters a bit more flavour, and to address what I see as a slight weakness in the class.
Starting at level 2, a fighter can select a fighting style that he has trained in, learning the Novice rank of skill with it. At level five, and every 3 levels thereafter, he can again choose training in a fighting style. This can be the same style, in which case he gains the Journeyman (or Master or Grandmaster, as he goes along) rank, or a brand new style.
Defender Style
The fighter who trains in this style concentrates mostly on personal defense. If an attacker can not strike you and damage you, your blows do not need to be the strongest, or the most accurate, as you will eventually wear him down with little injury of your own.
Novice: Most defenders prefer to use a shield. They are cheap, highly effective, and easy to learn. This level of training takes that a step further. The novice has learned to use his shield more effectively, granting him a +1 AC bonus on top of its normal bonus (so a shield that would normally be a +1 shield bonus to AC, is instead a +2 bonus). In addition, he has learned to effectively use it against ranged attacks. By using a move action, he can position the shield to provide cover to himself. Light shields provide partial soft cover, and heavy shields provide soft cover. If the fighter also has Journeyman Protector training, he may instead provide that cover to an adjacent ally.
Journeyman: Armor use is important to a fighter, and it is the rare fighter that goes unarmored. The journeyman defender has learned to turn his armor to its best advantage, knowing exactly how the armor wears, slopes, and responds to impacts. This is reflected in giving him a DR of 1/adamantine.
Master: The defender by this point has fought a variety of foes, in many situations, and has become skilled at anticipating attacks. He gains a +1 bonus to AC for every 5 class levels of Fighter he has. This is an insight bonus, and does stack with other insight bonuses.
Grand Master: The warrior has become so skilled at avoiding attacks and mitigating damage, that his armor and defenses almost feel like a second skin, enabling him to react to blows the instant they happen, lessening their impact. Once per combat, the fighter may use his armor bonus (including shield bonus, but NOT including dodge bonuses, insight bonuses, etc. Only the bonus from the armor/shield itself) as DR or Resistance vs a single attack. This choice may be made after an attack hits, but before the DM announces any damage done by it. He can do this once per day at level 11, twice at level 16, and three times per day at level 20, but no more than once per combat encounter.
Protector Style
The fighter who trains in this style concentrates on defending others, providing a shield of flesh and metal between his allies and damage. Concentrating on toughness and being able to react to threats, he is able to make sure that enemies must pass over his body to harm those he protects.
Novice: The fighter has trained himself to react instantly to threats to his allies. Once per round, he can interpose himself between an attack and an adjacent ally. Against ranged attacks or area of effect attacks, this provides cover to the ally. Against melee attacks, he takes any blow that would have landed on the ally. The attacker still makes the attack against the ally's modified AC (for cover), but if it hits, the melee attack hits the fighter instead. He may do this one additional time per round for every rank in this style he has past the first.
Journeyman: Shield use is just as important to a Protector as it is to a fighter training in the Defender style. They just use the shield a bit differently. By using a move action, he may give an ally a shield bonus to AC equal to his own (the Protector does not lose the shield bonus, he is able to react to protect both parties). If he is a Novice in the Defender style, he may also provide cover as listed above to the ally.
Master: The fighter has learned to shrug off pain and minor injuries taken in the defense of others. When using the Novice ability of this style, he gains DR 3/adamantine. In addition, ranged attacks that would have struck the ally now strike the Protector instead (while using the novice ability).
Grand Master: Sometimes you just need to get something's attention and keep it, so it does not squish that poor merchant over there. At this rank of training, the fighter has learned how best to get up in the face of a variety of opponents and make himself more of a nuisance than anything else. He makes a CMB roll against, the target's Will save (simply add 10 to the target's will save bonus to get the DC). If successful, the target temporarily forgets about whichever ally within 30 feet that the protector chooses. This only lasts until the ally does something to call attention to itself, such as attacking or casting a spell. Simple movement however, or bandaging wounds does not draw attention to the ally. He may only does this once per combat for a single ally, regardless of success.
Harrying Style
This fighter has learned early on that some foes are simply more swift or agile than he is. And that the best way to fight them, is to limit their movement and injure them in just the right fashion to keep them from getting too far away.
Novice: The novice harrier is learning how to keep up with foes. Whenever a foe takes a 5 foot step, the harrier may, as an immediate action, also take a 5 foot step that keeps him adjacent to the target. He may only do this once per round.
Journeyman: The harrier is learning more effectively how to slow a foe's movement. He may make a CMB check, that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If successful, the target's movement rate is cut in half for a number of rounds equal to the harrier's strength bonus. In addition, a target that tries to Withdraw provokes an attack of opportunity from the harrier (normally, Withdrawing does not provoke AoOs).
Master: At this level of training, the harrier is starting to deal with foes with more...unusual...modes of movement, such as flying, burrowing, and the like. However, he is learning to deal with them, and keep them where he and his allies can pound on them. He can make a CMB against the foe, that DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity. However, if the attack is successful, the foe is unable to use a single mode of movement, chosen by the harrier for a number of rounds equal to his strength bonus.
Grand Master: The harrier is a master of keeping foes exactly where he wants them. When using the Master level ability, he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity. Also he can interrupt foes that attempt more magical methods of escape, such as teleports or plane shifts. Even as an innate, supernatural ability, the harrier can make a special CMB attack as an AoO against adjacent foes that attempt such movement. Success means they must either accept a hit that is an automatic critical hit from the harrier, or abort the attempted escape.
Juggernaut Style
Sometimes, what really counts in a fight is how much armor you are wearing. Those who train in this style take that somewhat to the extreme. Rarely seen in anything less bulky than medium armor, they tend to prefer heavier armors, and especially full suits of enclosed metal and mail. Surprisingly, they are not as clumsy or slow as one might expect.
Novice: Training with weights, armor, and lugging heavy things around has enabled the fighter to better deal with the load his armor puts on him. In fact, he tends to actually move a bit faster while wearing it than not for some reason. While in medium or heavy armor, the fighter gains +5' to his movement rate (this is before any armor penalties). He also gains a bit more from wearing armor, increasing the AC of medium armor by 1 and heavy armor by 2.
Journeyman: Metal protects. This is an adage drilled into those trained in this style from the beginning, and the journeyman is starting to learn how true this is. At the start of his turn, he can trade any amount of AC bonus his armor provides him for an equal amount of DR */adamantine. This lasts until the beginning of his next turn. For example, a fighter wearing Splint Mail has a +7 AC bonus from the armor. On his turn, he could trade any amount of that AC bonus, up to 7, for an equal amount of DR/adamantine.
Master: A good defense can be an excellent offense, as the master of this style has learned. The weight of heavy armor adds power to blows, making him near to unstoppable. He may add his AC bonus from armor to all damage done in melee. In addition, he can add that same bonus to his CMB when using Bull Rush and Overrun maneuvers.
Grand Master: The true master of this style has found that his armor is nearly impervious to standard foes. The fighter gains a bonus of +2 DR/adamantine. While that is in effect at all times, it also stacks with any similar bonuses, either from items or from the Journeyman training, unlike most DR.
Whirling Death
The adage that speed kills is most apt for the fighter trained in this style. Hit your foes hard and fast, and down them before they know you were there. Whether using two weapons at once, a more exotic dual weapon, a single swift blade, or even a spear whirling and jabbing, this fighter has learned to press the attack with haste and strength.
Novice: While hitting your foe quickly is important, even these fighters do not neglect the benefits of a good defense. The quickly moving weapons they use and swift movements they take enable them to parry and dodge blows with ease. A novice of this style has learned to avoid and parry incoming attacks, giving him a +1 dodge bonus to AC. For each rank of training in this style, that bonus increases again by +1, to the maximum of +4 at Grand Master. In addition, if the fighter takes a move action this round, he gains a bonus equal to the dodge bonus he receives from this rank to his to hit and damage with melee weapons.
Journeyman: The journeyman has learned to hamper foes with speed and unpredictability. As such, he gains one additional Attack of Opportunity each round (which may stack with feats that grant more), and if he is using two weapons at once, or a double weapon, he can make any AoOs with both.
Master: The master of the style has learned that even the most well protected foe will fall to quick and steady strikes, wearing away at his defenses. As such, the fighter can make a CMB, which if successful, reduces the target's AC by 1, with an additional -1 reduction per 5 points his CMB roll exceeds the target's CMD by.
Grand Master: The fighter has become so deadly with his weapons, that they strike harder than those wielded by an untrained warrior. Any weapon he has that he has the Weapon Focus feat in does damage as if it was a size larger than normal.
Patient Tactician
While solid offense and solid defense have their place, the fighters that train in this style believe that there is a time and place for both, the trick is knowing when to be on the offensive and when to be on the defensive. Such training also helps them excel as battlefield commanders, giving them a keen eye for the ebb and flow of battle.
Novice: The fighter's training in this style has sharpened his senses while in battle, enabling him to see openings that others might miss. As such, when he uses the Aid Another action in combat, he is more effective, increasing the bonus by +1 per 5 points his attack roll exceeds the AC of 10. This is limited however to a maximum extra bonus of his Int bonus.
Journeyman: Having studied as many styles of combat as he can, the journeyman fighter is able to predict an opponent's actions. He gains a +2 Insight bonus to AC, and an additional +1 bonus for each rank past Journeyman in this style that he gains. If he also fights an opponent for 3 rounds, he is able to predict weaknesses in his stance and form, giving him the same bonus to hit against that opponent. The to hit bonus only lasts for that fight, however.
Master: The fighter's training and sharp eye have increased to such a degree that he is able to spot gaps in an opponent's armor that he and allies can take advantage of. He gains an insight bonus to damage equal to 2 points per rank in this style on his own attacks, both melee and ranged. In addition, he can point out these same flaws to allies, and when using the Aid Another action, may give the bonus as extra damage instead of to hit or AC. As a final benefit of his training at this rank, when using Aid Another, he can also split the bonus he provides between AC, Attack, and damage. His bonus is also no longer limited to a maximum of his Int bonus.
Grand Master: Opponents weaknesses and openings are glaring windows to the grand master of this style. As a fight goes on, he is able to slowly open up the opponent's defenses, eventually giving him a hole to deliver a massive attack. For each round he fights a specific opponent, he gains a special insight point. At any point during the fight, he can spend these points on a single attack. The attack has a bonus to hit equal to the number of insight points and does +1d6 damage per insight point. The points reset to zero after he makes this attack, if he stops combat, or if he engages another foe in combat.
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