D&D 3E/3.5 Another "Wish" question. 3.5.

[the Jester]

I would rule Absolutely Not.

Wish allows him to emulate the spell in question, but he's still casting wish.

 

[jefgorbach]

The "must be able to cast X spell" is essentially using a Limited/Wish to successfully research an Arcane version of the divine spell, so should be allowable given the number of existing Arcane/Divine cross-over spells; provided the level is within the spell's normal limits. This is a simple, straight-forward request without side-effects.


Likewise I could see the "must be able to cast X LEVEL divine spells" working, however such a use would most likely be accomplished by swapping existing Wizard levels with the divine levels neccessary to cast such spells, drastically reducing his effectiveness as a wizard.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

The "must be able to cast X spell" is essentially using a Limited/Wish to successfully research an Arcane version of the divine spell, so should be allowable given the number of existing Arcane/Divine cross-over spells; provided the level is within the spell's normal limits. This is a simple, straight-forward request without side-effects.


Likewise I could see the "must be able to cast X LEVEL divine spells" working, however such a use would most likely be accomplished by swapping existing Wizard levels with the divine levels neccessary to cast such spells, drastically reducing his effectiveness as a wizard.

Could a character WISH for a Feat? (not an extra one, but to change feats)

Could a character WISH for a level or experience? Some minor Artifacts like a BoVD, BoED and then the other alignment based books (in EPH I THINK) can allow you to gain a level in a divine or arcane spellcasting class of your choice upon finishing reading them.

 

[Jhaelen]

Could a character WISH for a Feat? (not an extra one, but to change feats)

Could a character WISH for a level or experience? Some minor Artifacts like a BoVD, BoED and then the other alignment based books (in EPH I THINK) can allow you to gain a level in a divine or arcane spellcasting class of your choice upon finishing reading them.

Well, you can WISH for anything, but if it's not one of the listed options, you do so at your own peril (and the DM's mercy)

If I was the DM:
- WISHing to change a feat: no problem. You're basically wasting the wish for something you could have achieved by simple retraining (PHB2) or by having someone manifest Psychic Reformation on you.

- WISHing for experience: depending on my mood this either doesn't do anything or will summon one or more enemies to your location - kill them all and you will gain the level

Note that replicating artifact powers is _definitely_ beyond the power of a wish!

 

[Aran Thule]

The wish is also a DM's playground to make things 'interesting'
In this case should you want to allow the wizard to cast the divine spell grant it as a 1/day ability.
But unknown to them this spell is being drawn from Vecna's power drawing its attention on the unfortunate wizard.

But on a more serious note i think it safer not to and DumbPaladin's example is most apt.

 

[BENINHB]

To fulfill a prerequisite, you must have the ability, power, spell etc. as part of your normal build. For example, if a (3.5E) barbarian has a strength of 18 and can rage for another 4, he is not eligible for a PrC that has a minimum strength requirement of 22. If the PrC requires you to have the Deflect Arrows feat, you cannot fulfill that by buying a magic item that grants you access to the feat - you have to actually have the feat.

I disagree. You could use the item that grants Deflect Arrows to gain access to the PrC but if you ever lost the item (stolen, sundered, taken off for a bath etc...) you would lose all the class features of the PrC until you regained the item or took the feat to fill the Pre Req.

 

[steeldragons]

WOOHOO! I figured out how to use Multiquote! There is cause for much rejoicing.

I totally agree that it is 100% your call as DM ... but I think some of the people on here could come up with scenarios that would make you regret opening this particular can of worms...

This. However, what IS a wish spell meant to be but a can of worms for the opening? It's not like they're lying around for the casting...are they? If so, that could be, yes, very problematic.

No. Prerequisites need to be stable, relatively permanent abilities. I don't even allow Precocious Apprentice to work for 2nd level prereqs, although that one could go either way.

I am all for maintaining a consistency, but again, we are talking about a "wish spell" here. Reworking/redefining reality is, kinda the point...and again, this should/would be an extraordinarily, I daresay "once in a lifetime" opportunity to use a wish...I am inclined to allow it.

Well, you can WISH for anything, but if it's not one of the listed options, you do so at your own peril (and the DM's mercy)

Eggsactly!

The wish is also a DM's playground to make things 'interesting'
In this case should you want to allow the wizard to cast the divine spell grant it as a 1/day ability.
But unknown to them this spell is being drawn from Vecna's power drawing its attention on the unfortunate wizard.

But on a more serious note i think it safer not to and DumbPaladin's example is most apt.

Also true...and not a bad "turn of events" plot scsenario.

My point is, it's a wish spell. If someone can wish "...to be the king of wherever" or "...the most powerful sorcerer on earth!", a scrawny weakling tired of being bullied could wish to be "...the strongest man alive."

Why shouldn't/couldn't they wish to be a certain prestige class? Give them the ability scores, feats, skills, whatever. *Poof* You're a prestige class...at the very lowest possible level they can be. Do you know how to USE your newfound skills and powers? Maybe...some...the rest you'll have to figure out/get training for.

Up to the DM how it plays out and hopefully there are some fun (read as horrifyingly unexpected) repercussions. But I don't see why a "wish" spell, couldn't or shouldn't be used in this fashion.

Again, last I checked, wish spells did't grow on trees...*light spell bursts above head <thinking>...wish spells...on trees... hmmm...*

Excuse me...
--Steel Dragons

 

[Sorrowdusk]

I disagree. You could use the item that grants Deflect Arrows to gain access to the PrC but if you ever lost the item (stolen, sundered, taken off for a bath etc...) you would lose all the class features of the PrC until you regained the item or took the feat to fill the Pre Req.

AFAIK temporary increases or from spells, or permanent magic items aren't 'inherent' qualities. I believe by RAW those dont allow to make prerequisites, albeit you could certainly rule that way if you wanted. I personally believe a PC ought to have all the feats/stats/casting requirements/skill ranks as inherent qualities, not anything apart of their equipment or ongoing magic before seeing if they qualify for a prestige class.

 

[Marius Delphus]

With any PrC that has a requirement of "must be able to cast X spell" or "must be able to cast X level divine spells", etc, could the Limited Wish or Wish fulfill that requisite, as it does allow a Wizard of sufficient level to cast that spell, albeit as a 7th or 9th level spell, respectively?

No. You must be able to cast X (or X-level), not be able to cast a completely different spell that can rearrange reality to conform to the idea of your having cast X (or an X-level spell).

 

[Jacob]

- WISHing for experience: depending on my mood this either doesn't do anything or will summon one or more enemies to your location - kill them all and you will gain the level

I'm using this should the opportunity present itself.

AFAIK temporary increases or from spells, or permanent magic items aren't 'inherent' qualities. I believe by RAW those dont allow to make prerequisites, albeit you could certainly rule that way if you wanted. I personally believe a PC ought to have all the feats/stats/casting requirements/skill ranks as inherent qualities, not anything apart of their equipment or ongoing magic before seeing if they qualify for a prestige class.

I suffered from such a problem with an Ogre who had the Weapon of Legacy Stormchaser's Cudgel. You needed a required STR to even use it to get on the Legacy path, and my DM thought all I needed was a Belt of Giant Strength and everything would be okay. I obviously wasn't going to stand for such a thing, because I wanted a bit of consistency with what the rules are supposed to be.

Never really found out what would happen later because of being kicked out after the matter, but at least I stuck to my guns. My Lawyering Guns.