Any Dune conversions out there?

[LostSoul]

An Adept class for the Bene Gesserits, I think I'm going to build a lot of feat choices into it to represent the various kinds of BG that exist.

Realize that a 1st-level BG Adept would probably be 5 years old.

This is said about the Sardaukar, the Emperor's "Terror Troops", the power that he used to control the Landsraad:

"At the apex of their sway over the affairs of the Universe, their swordsmanship was said to match that of the Ginaz tenth level and their cunning abilities at in-fighting were reputed to approach those of a Bene Gesserit adept. Any one of them was rated a match for any ten ordinary Landsraad military conscripts."

The Bene Gesserit are, by far, the better warriors, especially at the time of the first DUNE book.

A Truthsayer PrC

Remeber that Doctor Yueh could truthsay, to a small degree:

"I made a shaitan's bargain with the Baron. And I must be certain he has fulfilled his half of it. When I see him, I'll know. When I look at the Baron, then I will know. ... My poor Wanna taught me many things, and one is to see the certainty of truth when the stress is great. I cannot do it always, but when I see the Baron - then, I will know."

I would suggest making it a Restricted Skill, available only to the Bene Gesserit; and make a Feat that allows it to be taken as a Cross-Class Skill.

A Guild Pilot PrC

Guild Pilots are no longer human. I don't think it would be much fun to play one of these; they have strong prescient ability, which might cause problems. I forget what the pilot looked like in the second book (Dune: Messiah?) and what his abilities were, but he seemed quite alien.

I don't know much about the other classes you posted; is one of them some type of bard class? I think that archetype is still strong in the Dune universe.

 

[Florin]

The Bene Gesserit

In the Wheel of Time RPG, the first level of the magic-using class is equivilant of the training a mid-level (Accepted) memeber of the Aes Sedai (a group of female magic users). I see no reason why the Adept class can't mimic someone with more training than a 5 year old.

The Saurdukar

Saurdukar are either going to have the fighter/soldier class or else have a class like the Starhowler which is more suited to intimidation in combat. Either way, they are going to be superior to normal troops because normal troops are going to have the NPC warrior class. Also, how much of a part of their superiority comes from superior arms and armor?

As for how an Adept would compare to Saurdukar, show me an example of a 1st level Adept vs. a 1st level Saurdukar in the books. It's a little bit more amorphous than that in the books, so for game balance, it's better to have the classes equal.

The Truthsayer

Yueh was trained by his BG wife to read minutae. That's how he'd know, when he saw him, not heard him. I'm already working on a feat that would allow Sense Motive to work in that manner with another skill that would oppose it.

The Guild Pilot

The Guild Pilot PrC would work like the Dragon Disciple of Tome & Blood, they wouldn't complete their transformation until the end of the class.

The Bard

The Knave class would work well for a bard.

 

[LostSoul]

The Bene Gesserit

In the Wheel of Time RPG, the first level of the magic-using class is equivilant of the training a mid-level (Accepted) memeber of the Aes Sedai (a group of female magic users). I see no reason why the Adept class can't mimic someone with more training than a 5 year old.

If I remember correctly, the BG take young children and train them at an early age. The same thing goes for Mentats. The training they get is so advanced and rigorous that it doesn't make sense to have a 15-year old 1st level BG.

To put it another way: unless the class is really front-loaded, what happened to all the skills they've learned over the past ten to fifteen years? No 15 year old BG is going to be able to be taken down from a lucky (re: critical) hit from a Commoner.

The Saurdukar

Saurdukar are either going to have the fighter/soldier class or else have a class like the Starhowler which is more suited to intimidation in combat.

As for how an Adept would compare to Saurdukar, show me an example of a 1st level Adept vs. a 1st level Saurdukar in the books. It's a little bit more amorphous than that in the books, so for game balance, it's better to have the classes equal.

Re: intimidation. The Sardaukar were very intimidating, so there should be something in the class for that.

Re: game balance. Game balance is a good thing to aim for, but there is no way a Bene Gesserit class and a Sardaukar class are going to be balanced. The BG can fight better at the same age, and they have all those neat "tricks" they can do as well. (The quote I posted above in the appendix should go to show how a young BG matches up with an average Sardaukar. Then there are the Fremen; the Sardaukar are no match whatsoever for the Fremen, yet Jessica easily takes care of Stilgar.)

The Truthsayer

Yueh was trained by his BG wife to read minutae. That's how he'd know, when he saw him, not heard him. I'm already working on a feat that would allow Sense Motive to work in that manner with another skill that would oppose it.

It could be as simple as adding difficulties:
All senses can be used - +0.
One sense cannot be used (talking to somebody across the room) - +5.
Two senses cannot be used (talking to somebody through a viewer of some type) - +10.
Three senses cannot be used (listening through a radio) - +15.
Four senses - +20.

Yueh needed to get close to the Baron because he wasn't as good as a typical BG. Or so you could say. Maybe our take on this is different, though. I always thought Truthsaying was a highly developed "Read Minutae" skill.

This keeps the amount of rules down to a single skill (and feat pairing).

 

[Florin]

If I remember correctly, the BG take young children and train them at an early age. The same thing goes for Mentats. The training they get is so advanced and rigorous that it doesn't make sense to have a 15-year old 1st level BG.

To put it another way: unless the class is really front-loaded, what happened to all the skills they've learned over the past ten to fifteen years? No 15 year old BG is going to be able to be taken down from a lucky (re: critical) hit from a Commoner.

Well, in the intrests of not front-loading a class, I'm willing to deviate from the books a bit.

Re: game balance. Game balance is a good thing to aim for, but there is no way a Bene Gesserit class and a Sardaukar class are going to be balanced. The BG can fight better at the same age, and they have all those neat "tricks" they can do as well. (The quote I posted above in the appendix should go to show how a young BG matches up with an average Sardaukar. Then there are the Fremen; the Sardaukar are no match whatsoever for the Fremen, yet Jessica easily takes care of Stilgar.)

Sure there is a way, I say that game balance is more important than modeling one or two characters. No game is ever going to mimic a novel exactly. The best you can hope for is to get as close as you can without making one or two classes more powerful than all the others. After all, if I really tried to stay true to the books, the BG would probably be the best fighters and the best at manipulating people. That works well in a book. That doesn't work well in a game.

 

[LostSoul]

Cool, I see how you're looking at it now.

I'd probably give the BG a good attack bonus and a nice skill list, with d8 hit points and maybe some bonus "BG" feats. All saves should probably be good.

I'd give the Sardaukar good attack bonus, d12 hp, a Ranger-y skill list with Intimidation, and a bonus combat feat list. Good Fort saves.

The Fremen would probably look a lot like the Sardaukar.

I'd make Mentats, Reverend Mothers, Kwisatz Haderachs, and all those other neat-o things into Prestige Classes.

I don't know how you'd balance a common Noble with the BG or Sardaukar, though...

 

[Florin]

Well, nobles would be the people with the contacts and the money. They wouldn't be combat machines or anything, but they'd be the movers and shakers. They'd also have things like social feats which would allow them to have some clout in the world.

I agree with you for the PrC's, except for the Mentats. I think they should probably be a class, but I'm still trying to figure out what to do with them. As you said, they are trained from a very young age, so they should be a core class. Although maybe just picking up a Mentat feat that gives you access to a skill or two about predicting things through computations...

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Well, nobles would be the people with the contacts and the money. They wouldn't be combat machines or anything, but they'd be the movers and shakers. They'd also have things like social feats which would allow them to have some clout in the world.

Rokugan has a more social/noble class in it, though the name escapes me at the moment.

However- it seemed dueling was commong among nobles, and war definitly was common between the houses. It might make more sense to make a class variant of the fight for the nobles- similar to samurai in OA.

I agree with you for the PrC's, except for the Mentats. I think they should probably be a class, but I'm still trying to figure out what to do with them. As you said, they are trained from a very young age, so they should be a core class. Although maybe just picking up a Mentat feat that gives you access to a skill or two about predicting things through computations...

Well, you could convert some divination spells to class abilities and tie them to a exclusive mentat skill- the higher the skill check the more accurate the information they are able to discern. A more robust bardic knowledge of sorts.

Another possiblity would to give them abilities in combat by studying foes. (Wasn't there mention of Mentat Assassins?)

I think the Sardaukar should be on the PrC list- they are not exactly a culture or way of life adopted, but a role thrust upon you.

Of course- all that tempered by my distant reading of the books.

FD

 

[Florin]

The Nobles in Fading Suns do a lot of dueling too, so I figure I'll steal that class.

The Saurdukar I'm kind of split on. There is a nice class called the Starhowlers in Fading Suns, so that might be perfect for them. If it's not, I'll probably PrC them.