Any Interesting Ways to Convert NPC Classes to PC Classes?

[airwalkrr]

In AD&D, there was the 0-level character who was just like all the other common folk out there. You had hit points you could count on one hand, a thAC0 of 20 and hardly any proficiencies. 3rd edition threw the "0-level character" rule out with the implementation of NPC classes. Now while I think this was a great idea, I have always struggled with the fact that there is no longer a simple way to run a campaign where an ordinary group of common folk step into the role of heroes without leaving them with a messy NPC level that doesn't really do much for them.

Has anyone come up with a nice, neat way to convert your levels in NPC classes to PC classes? For instance, a 3rd-level expert decides to take up adventuring and eventually replaces his three levels of expert with fighter levels making him a 3rd-level fighter before he levels up any further. It would be easy enough to just replace expert with fighter level for level, but in such a case, the former expert loses a lot of skill points and suddenly has less willpower than he had previously.

One somewhat fair way I've come up with is to say having NPC levels gives you a negative level adjustment. This makes it easier to progress in a PC class rather than saying, "you suck as a 4th-level commoner, but you have to earn just as many experience points to level up as the 4th-level cleric." Also, it seems fair if you want to run this kind of campaign to allow the NPC classes to be considered favored classes so it doesn't automatically screw elf warrior/fighters just because they didn't become warrior/wizards instead.

Another idea is to assume all races have racial hit dice. So a human would have 1d8 hit points plus (2 + Int mod) x 4 skill points.

Has anyone come up with other ideas for doing this?

 

[ideasmith]

Adept could recieve feats at the Fighter rate, but from the Wizard list.

Aristocrat could recieve feats at the Fighter rate, but from the an Aristocrat list which included leadership and social feats (but you'd have to find/invent a lot of feats to have an adequate selection.)

Expert could recieve feats at the Fighter rate but from a skill-based list. (There's enough of those in the PH, but more would be a good idea.)

 

[Jack Simth]

Honestly? Don't. Make them quickly become Gestalt characters, but only with NPC classes. The secondary class goes up one level for each 1,000 xp, until the two levels are tied; thereafter, it progresses as "normal" for a Gestalt - So a Warrior-3, with 3,000 xp to start, becomes a Warrior-3/Adept-1 at 4,000 xp, Warrior-3/Adept-2 at 5,000 xp, Warrior-4/Adept-3 at 6,000 xp, Warrior-4/Adept-4 at 7,000 xp, and then slows down and doesn't reach 5th in either until 10,000 xp (Warrior-5/Adept-5).

Commoners do this too, but replace their commoner levels at the same time they add the secondary class.

 

[airwalkrr]

I'm not sure if I was clear enough. I don't want to start a campaign using NPC classes. I want to start a campaign where the PCs begin with NPC classes, but they decide to become adventurers and thereafter level from PC classes. Because the NPC classes really don't add much to their abilities, I am trying to think of a way to just phase the NPC classes out without making it seem like the PCs suddenly "forget" things they used to know.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm not sure if I was clear enough. I don't want to start a campaign using NPC classes. I want to start a campaign where the PCs begin with NPC classes, but they decide to become adventurers and thereafter level from PC classes. Because the NPC classes really don't add much to their abilities, I am trying to think of a way to just phase the NPC classes out without making it seem like the PCs suddenly "forget" things they used to know.

Maybe simple multiclassing would suffice? You can then apply a "negative" Level Adjustment. So, a Expert1/Fighter1 would be considered as a 1st level character for purposes of XP and so on.

"Upgrading" previous levels might also be possible, but as you said, some things might go lost in the transition. The main problem might be the Expert, since there aren't many classes with 6+ skill points level and a good will save. Two solutions: Ignore such minor inconvenience (maybe the character did lose his focus on that aspect while going adventuring?), or switch the good save to Reflex.
For Upgrading, treat the NPC levels as full character levels (no negative level adjustment). verytime the character gains a level in a "hero" class, he can also upgrade one of his NPC classes.
Commoner -> anything
Warrior -> Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin or Ranger
Expert -> Bard, Ranger, Rogue
Adept -> Cleric or Druid. If you allow "arcane adepts", wizard and sorceror should be possible, too.

PS: Instead of replacing levels, you could also use a kind of limited gestalting - everytime they advance one level in a "hero" class, they can add a gestalt level of that class to one of their NPC levels, until all NPC levels are "gestalted".

 

[szilard]

I'm not sure if I was clear enough. I don't want to start a campaign using NPC classes. I want to start a campaign where the PCs begin with NPC classes, but they decide to become adventurers and thereafter level from PC classes. Because the NPC classes really don't add much to their abilities, I am trying to think of a way to just phase the NPC classes out without making it seem like the PCs suddenly "forget" things they used to know.

Multiclass, sort of.

Here's an example.
Start off with a 3rd lvl Expert. BAB +2, F +1/R+1/W +3, say... 14 hp, and 36+(Intx6) skill points. Two feats from levels.

Say the guy wants to become a Rogue. Essentially start him over at level 1... but don't take anything away... and don't let things stack. When his BAB from being a Rogue exceeds his Expert BAB, start using the Rogue one. Until then, use the Expert one. He doesn't get new skill points until he would exceed the total he already had, but at each level until then he can reassign the number of skill point that he'd get for that level as a Rogue. Level-based Feats can be replaced at the appropriate level, if desired.

If you want, you can give the guy a +1 LA for every two levels of NPC class he has above his current class level. Thus, as a Rogue 1, the above character would be ECL 2. At Rogue 2, he would still be ECL 2.


Stuart

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

A couple of options:

1. Look at d20 Modern, Urban Arcana, & d20 Past. Instead of "NPC" classes, you start with Smart Hero, Strong Hero, Dedicated Hero, Fast Hero, or Tough Hero and advance up to 5 levels. Then switch to an Advanced Class. These are basically the D&D core classes but are limited to 10 levels. Then you can have them take Prestige Classes which are mostly the D&D Prestige Classes but limited to 5 levels. Alternately you might allow the advanced classes to go to 15 levels.

2. Have all PCs begin play with NPC classes. Do not convert anything when they take PC classes. NPC classes do not count towards the multiclass penalty. Reduce all encounters by CR -1. That way you won't overwhelm them too easily.

Just my 2 farthings. . .

 

[Nyaricus]

how about approximating how powerful NPC classes are? Either 1 level in a PC class, 2 in Expert/Aristocrat/Adept/Acolyte/Warrior or 3 in commoner?

 

[drexes]

I am currently in a campaign that did just what you are considering, start with NPC classes then moveon to the real thing. I know of several issues with the campaign. The first is that for whatever reason it seems to complicate things especially when a new character comes in, the when did I gain which level issue becomes ultra important. The second issue is that not all NPC classes were created equal. For instance the adept and warrior are far and away superior to the commoner in every aspect. The third issue I know of is that it creates a little more head ache for a Dm two balance the parties encounters. The last issue I know of is that some pc classes will not be as effective without first level considerations (most noticebly the rogue, without those 8+Int x 4 skill points...whew...ugly). I know this is not really the advice you want to hear, but if it was up to me (and IMC it is...teehee) I wouldn't do it again.

We've had nothing but issues with how people spent those npc skill points and how people qualified for things. I think it has been WAY more headache than it was worth.

Sorry if that wasn't helpful

Drexes

 

[Nyaricus]

Oh, BTW, since I am of the disposition to be whoring out Shadowfoots works nowadays (a prolific poster on WotC's boards) here is the Professional - an all-in-one base class