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Any limits to Optimization?
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<blockquote data-quote="gamerprinter" data-source="post: 6366848" data-attributes="member: 50895"><p>My only comment is as long as everyone at the table is doing the same level of optimization, including the GM, it generally all works fine. Problems arise when only one or more, but not everyone is optimizing their characters. A group consisting of mixed optimizers generally leads to problems. At my table, I had one guy that has a very good mastery of the rules, with a table that is 2/3rds mostly new players - having never played an RPG before this. At low and mid levels it really wasn't a problem (though still noticeable), but once the class features and spell access began to pile up at higher levels the difference between the overly optimized and the barely optimized was huge and very noticeable in play - to the point that the non-optimizers felt like minions following one serious hero and the game fell apart. You don't even have to min/max to make non-optimizers to feel the difference once you get to higher levels.</p><p></p><p>As along as everyone is basically optimizing at a similar level, there should be no problems (at least not those kind of issues.)</p><p></p><p>And yes, if you up the challenge level to make optimized characters feel on equal footing, the under optimized characters will feel it, and perhaps their PCs will die because of it. Since asking players with under optimized characters to improve their system mastery is a much harder consideration than asking the system master to back down on optimization a bit. Either some level of consensus by all party members to work on the same level so the game will be more fun for all involved, or the system master needs to find another group that is more on par with his level optimization - as the only result seems that some players will not be having fun, and isn't having fun the purpose for participating in a game in the first place?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gamerprinter, post: 6366848, member: 50895"] My only comment is as long as everyone at the table is doing the same level of optimization, including the GM, it generally all works fine. Problems arise when only one or more, but not everyone is optimizing their characters. A group consisting of mixed optimizers generally leads to problems. At my table, I had one guy that has a very good mastery of the rules, with a table that is 2/3rds mostly new players - having never played an RPG before this. At low and mid levels it really wasn't a problem (though still noticeable), but once the class features and spell access began to pile up at higher levels the difference between the overly optimized and the barely optimized was huge and very noticeable in play - to the point that the non-optimizers felt like minions following one serious hero and the game fell apart. You don't even have to min/max to make non-optimizers to feel the difference once you get to higher levels. As along as everyone is basically optimizing at a similar level, there should be no problems (at least not those kind of issues.) And yes, if you up the challenge level to make optimized characters feel on equal footing, the under optimized characters will feel it, and perhaps their PCs will die because of it. Since asking players with under optimized characters to improve their system mastery is a much harder consideration than asking the system master to back down on optimization a bit. Either some level of consensus by all party members to work on the same level so the game will be more fun for all involved, or the system master needs to find another group that is more on par with his level optimization - as the only result seems that some players will not be having fun, and isn't having fun the purpose for participating in a game in the first place? [/QUOTE]
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