Any more info on Castles and Crusades?

[WSmith]

Uh, no people. A lot of his posts have been pretty underhanded slams about DnD of the 'its not about roleplaying' or its 'all about power' type. And he is contradictory on the dm control factor; on the one hand, he thinks players have it easy, not having the challenging games experience of 1e and on the other, he moans over how the rules are too strict and prevent him from achieving high cinimatic adventure. The only semi-coherent sentiment i could take from this is that, besides hating everything 3e just because, is that he wants a fudge-heavy game where the dms, with little guidlines, run it the way HE DOES, i.e. mostly to screw players. Nevermind that 1e doesn't really do this at all well, being rules heavy in some places, rules non-existent in others, but oh well..heavens forbid that such a master actually use reason when posting...

Ok, you are right, genius. OAD&D sucks cause of the leeway it gives the DM, and d20 is perfect since all rules are codified leaving no room for ad hoc adjudication.

Sorry, Henry. I am going back to my den on the web where I belong. No more posts for me here at EN World.

 

[jasamcarl]

Ok, you are right, genius. OAD&D sucks cause of the leeway it gives the DM, and d20 is perfect since all rules are codified leaving no room for ad hoc adjudication.

Sorry, Henry. I am going back to my den on the web where I belong. No more posts for me here at EN World.

If it was a rules-light argument he was making, that would be fine. But he also claimed that 3e was less of a game, which by definition need to have codified rules. Personally, i think he doesn't really care about making substantive arguments, and just like stroking his own ego and that of those diehards who like to justify to themselves their adherence to 1e.

 

[The Blue Elf]

Well,I'm not going to Bash 3rd edition D&D besides there are other Roleplaying books that use the same D20 system most of them converted to D&D others created by the use of D20. I think Gary wants to change that because it seems D20 system is dominate in RPG systems I think he wants to change the rules around for games on his own terms.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Sorry, Henry. I am going back to my den on the web where I belong. No more posts for me here at EN World.

I'm sorry to hear that, and I certainly hope my disagreement with your stance earlier didn't contribute to this in any way. I don't agree with what you said on a number of game points, but I was interested in continuing the discussion and finding out where you came from on said matters.

I hope you'll change your mind and hang around a while.

 

[d4]

Ok, you are right, genius. OAD&D sucks cause of the leeway it gives the DM, and d20 is perfect since all rules are codified leaving no room for ad hoc adjudication.

to be perfectly honest, as a DM the reason why i prefer 3e to previous editions is because the rules are codified enough that i don't have to keep constantly making ad hoc adjudications. i hated previous editions of D&D because they were too rules-light.

so although you were making a sarcastic remark, it's actually one that is truth for me.

 

[jasamcarl]

p.s. Does this mean i win?

 

[Bregh]

Its like that allegory about the Special Olympics, jasamcarl.

Win, lose, you're still ______ __________.

 

[Melan]

Bregh: heh. Too true, something I learned from EW.

 

[castler and crusader]

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

All

I thought I might intervene in here before a meaness starts that I would really rather not see.

As one of those tinkering with this rules system I though I might interject a little with some information.

But I really can't intervene with much because we are still in the thinking the ground rules out part of the thing. This whole process/idea came to us around Gencon/Gamefest Mil for very particular reasons.

It has nothing to do with Monte's book (really good by the by - and I have always been a fan of racial classes/advancement), with the liscence change (we really did not care nor believe WotC was about to slay one of their Golden Cows - but who knows, that cow seems to be hanging around the alter a lot lately, and who is that guy sharpening the axe?), nor any general anger/dislike at 3e (Tweet and crew did a really ggod job, I like and have always liked the system), nor any marketing research/strategy.

We are simply putting together a game that we like, a game that can drive us and hopefully a few others. But if not, se la, I am not going to lose any sleep (it is game after all) nor will we go out of business.

Its part of the beauty of the OGL, everyone can bring their own personal twist to the game.

Its not going to be the game for everyone, we know that, we are not trying to 'outdesign' someone or show that we are better (others have vastly greater exp than us and I doubt we'll top them in a lifetime), we are not trying to compete with anyone or anything, we are shooting for a game that fits our style of play. That's it, nothing more.

Does it resemble 1e in some aspects - sure it does. Does it keep some basic tenets of 3e - sure it does. Are we inspired by other systems - sure as heck, my biggest inspirations outside of D and D basic are Rolemaster and Warhammer (the games many hate to love).

We are concerned about two things - new players (a game with my nephew revealed a problem with 3e) and 'feel'. I have no way of putting my finger on this one. I play a 3e (a few by now) campaign that is going very well and is a lot of fun but it does not have the same 'feel' as the earlier campaigns. Is the problem in the rules or is it in the DM. Being rather egotistical I want to say it is not with me, but that would be disengenuous. It is partly with me. For some reason, I can not keep the flavor with the 3e rules system so I have shifted my game to exploit 3e rather than the reverse. Now I am doing the reverse.

Thing is, for anyone out there whose has played numerous systems (T and T, Warhammer, Rolemaster etc) you know that each set of rules makes the game and gives it a feel. That is the product of rules, the nature of rules, and the utility of rules.

And this is where rules lite comes in. We are not re-inventing the wheel (Gary invented it and its only been refined ever since) we are making it a less refined wheel. A wheel that does not go on just one type of car, a generic wheel that can be shaped to fit any car (or so we would like to think - but again, any rules system....) We want a rules lite system that allows DM and Players (the Dynamic between the two most importantly) to create their own feel.

Anyway, I have rambled long enough this morning.

Please forgive my interjection on this board, I am always hesitant to post here as it seems 'non-industry' people (as if we could seperate or are seperate) need a place where we don't go to justify or blather about our products.

Have fun and be good.

Davis Chenault
Troll Lord Trolling

 

[Henry]

JasamCarl, I'm assuming you're talking about Gary here, and not WDSmith, since you weren't clear until your second post.

But to me, I honestly think Gary has less of an opinion over 3E than his version - and he's certainly entitled; I'm not sure how disliking a newer game over what he personally designed is "stroking his ego."

One thing I've learned in my sojourns between d20 sites and Dragonsfoot (and other non-d20 sites) - 3E is not inherently "better" than the older versions of the game, because no rules system can deliver in ALL categories. And one thing 3E CAN'T deliver in, is one-line stat blocks in published materials. It also has a much tighter integration between class ability and magic ownership than previous games, due to the readjustment of the XP scales to equivalence, IMO.

Also, it cannot satisfy all people at all times. No game system can. So if 1E-preferred players can have an outlet where they can publish and share NEW materials with the style and feel of the older systems, and possess a system that Gary Gygax can get his ideas to print in a relatively "unbastardized" form, then more power to them.

does this mean I win?

no.


Davis Chenault:

Thanks for dropping in. I plan to keep up on this project as much as possible, because I am very interested in seeing it, and what I consider the ultimate fruit of it: Gary and Rob's castle come to life. I'm just sorry I never got in on the playtesting part.