Any other vegetarians / vegans?

[Jonny Nexus]

"Non-vegetarian who eats meat" is relative too. For example in my case I posted here specifically because I do not eat meat, with some small exceptions. This week, I've had albacore tuna twice, and that was the total extent of my meat consumption. Not a strict vegetarian, but eating just like one in 19 of 21 meals. (I drink nonfat milk, but do not ever eat cheese, I don't know to categorize that..) At times, it can be very difficult to hold back my cravings, because I do like meat!

Well my feeling on this would be (and I'm saying this in a desire to show where I'm coming from) is that what you're saying is a bit like someone saying, "I'm celebate*... except when I have sex, which I did twice last week."

i.e. A vegetarian is someone who thinks it's wrong to eat meat and so doesn't eat meat. At all.

You don't feel that is wrong to eat meat, and do eat meat, therefore I wouldn't consider you to be a vegetarian. That's not meant as criticism, but simply as a statement of fact.

* Although interestingly enough, I have noticed that people who describe themselves as celebate usually have sex considerably more often than I do, because the very fact that they have "chosen" to abstain from sex indicates that they have a lifestyle in which sex is readily available to them.

 

[Azul]

I'm definitely not a vegitarian and I can't really imagine trying to live off a vegan diet. It's both personally and culturally rather alien to me. I understand and respect why someone would choose vegetarianism (both for moral and health issues). I simply disagree on the morale issues (humans are omnivores by nature and it seems silly to me to feel guilty about our biology).

That being said, I do have significant concerns regarding inhumane agricultural practices such as factory farming. Sure, I'm fine with eating an animal but I think that animal should be given a reasonably good quality of life and a painless death.

I guess it is a question of respect and of avoiding unnecessary cruelty for me. I am fine with eating animals but I feel that any food animal deserves to be treated with as much respect as possible. Wherever I manage to find options for more humanely treated animal products in my food purchases, I pretty systematically go for those. I wish more such non-factory farmed animal products were available.

This philosophy also lead me to support controlled hunting where the hunter makes optimal use of the animals he hunts (e.g. using the meat, fur/hide, whatnot). I used to generally dislike hunting (it seemed cruel at first glance) until I realized it was less cruel than how much of our meat is produced. This form of meat production provides the animal with a humane life up until the day it is harvested. In my view, such hunting is a more ethical alternative to many current farming practices. Sport hunting, on the other hand, is something I view as needless waste and cruelty. Killing to eat is one thing. Killing for fun is another. For the record, no, I'm not a hunter but several of my friends and relatives are.

If my views were strong enough to override my innate desire to eat meat, I imagine I'd be a vegetarian or nearly so (perhaps I'd raise a few animals myself or buy only from humane farmers I knew) .

However, I just don't feel strongly enough about it to make radical changes in my lifestyle like that. For better or wose, other issues (both personal and political) are more important to me. I just try to minimize my contribution to supporting less savoury farming practices whenever I can and use my purchasing power to encourage more humane practices. Maybe it's just my conscience speaking, but animals that lead happier lives seem to result in tastier animal products too.

As for vegetarianism, I'm always happy to accomodate those who I know that have made that choice. It seems like a fairly tough thing to be in much of North America since our culture involves a lot of meat eating. The vegitarians I know have all seemed to struggle against a deep craving for meat. Perhaps it is merely a psychological craving since none were brought up veggie (i.e. they remember the taste of meat and the smell of a steak still makes the drool). They also seem to be motivated by moral issues rather than any health or cultural reasons.

 

[LeapingShark]

Jonny Nexus: Your analogy assumes everybody has sex about 21 times a week. For some of us, those would be rather lofty expectations!

 

[talinthas]

i.e. A vegetarian is someone who thinks it's wrong to eat meat and so doesn't eat meat. At all.

You don't feel that is wrong to eat meat, and do eat meat, therefore I wouldn't consider you to be a vegetarian. That's not meant as criticism, but simply as a statement of fact.

I don't know that i like this tone as representative of all vegetarians. I don't think it's wrong to eat meat--i just choose not to do it. Vegetarian refers to a style of diet, not a philosophy and way of being. In my case, i'm a brahmin hindu raised to be vegetarian, because that's how our culture has established values for the priest class. Lower castes eat meat because the scriptures indicate that it's good for their professions or what have you. Certainly, some extremists have taken that to mean that eating meat itself is entirely wrong, but that's an entirely different ballpark than not eating meat yourself.

it's a shame that too often, diet and politics mix in western culture, when they really have no need to.

 

[GeorgeFields]

We've been easing into the veggie diet for a few months now. We have some meat, but the amounts keep decreasing. I don't think I've ever been healthier in my entire life.

I never knew that eggplant tastes good!

 

[Jonny Nexus]

I don't know that i like this tone as representative of all vegetarians. I don't think it's wrong to eat meat--i just choose not to do it. Vegetarian refers to a style of diet, not a philosophy and way of being. In my case, i'm a brahmin hindu raised to be vegetarian, because that's how our culture has established values for the priest class. Lower castes eat meat because the scriptures indicate that it's good for their professions or what have you. Certainly, some extremists have taken that to mean that eating meat itself is entirely wrong, but that's an entirely different ballpark than not eating meat yourself.

it's a shame that too often, diet and politics mix in western culture, when they really have no need to.

Well I guess to a certain extent I shouldn't speak for vegetarians given that I'm not a vegetarian - I'm a vegan.

With veganism the issue is much simpler: the Vegan Society actually invented the word vegan during a brainstorming session at their first meeting. So what the vegan society says is the definition of the word is by definition the definition, if you get my drift.

(And their definition is that vegans avoid the use of all animal products whereever possible - i.e. it's a lifestyle and not just a diet).

With vegetarianism, the issue is more complex because the word predates organisations such as the Vegetarian Society, so it could be argued that they can't define what it means (and I'm not sure what their definition is, anyway).

But I take your point that a vegetarian is simply someone who abstains entirely* from meat - for whatever reason - and that you can't, and shouldn't, assume why they are doing so.

* And technically speaking, it could be argued that the definition of an English word is whatever people use it to mean, so if enough people start using it to mean "someone who eats some meat but not a lot" then that is what it will mean - and since the Vegetarian Society didn't invent the word, there's not a lot they can do about that, were it to occur.

 

[Gnome]

Well in the interests of fairness and honesty, I do have to say that while I still don't in any way condone what your friend and his mates did, if it was true that she wore leather shoes and belts then she was, in my opinion, a spectacular hypocrite.

Well, one thing to consider is existing items: I've been vegetarian for ethical reasons (trying to move closer to vegan all the time) for about 1 1/2 years, but have only had non-leather shoes for about a month. Why? Because I had already purchased them before my switch, and giving them up wouldn't bring the cow back to life.

I understand why others would choose to give-up such items right away, but I tend to be more pragmatic about such matters.

 

[Gnome]

Btw, my definition of vegetarian is not eating anything that poops.

 

[Jonny Nexus]

Well, one thing to consider is existing items: I've been vegetarian for ethical reasons (trying to move closer to vegan all the time) for about 1 1/2 years, but have only had non-leather shoes for about a month. Why? Because I had already purchased them before my switch, and giving them up wouldn't bring the cow back to life.

I understand why others would choose to give-up such items right away, but I tend to be more pragmatic about such matters.

This is a question that comes up from time to time.

My personal take on it is that I believe that animal products should be treated as taboo, evil in fact, and that to use them - even where they are pre-existing - risks weakening that taboo, and giving the impression that it's an okay thing to do.

An analogy here is the fight against furs, when they tried to get over an idea that fur coats were simply disgusting, and no decent person would want to be seen in one. This wouldn't have worked if they were simultaneously saying that it was okay to wear fur coats that you already had.

However (and this is a big however) whilst I personally don't agree with the wearing of pre-existing animal products, I do not consider that it disqualifies someone from being a vegetarian or vegan.

In other words I still recognise vegans who wear pre-existing leather shoes as vegans, merely vegans who are following a different interpretation of the code to me. (Whereas if a "vegan" was to go out and buy a pair of leather shoes, I simply wouldn't consider them a vegan at all).

Hope that all makes sense.

 

[Jesus_marley]

Umm...

technically speaking, once it's dead... it doesn't poop.