Anyone else having trouble rationalizing CoC sanity loss?

[MeepoTheMighty]

If you don't believe that reading a Mythos tome can make you go crazy, go to www.timecube.com and read the whole thing straight through without taking a break. Then put it through Bablefish, convert it to German then back to english, then read it again. Then multiply that by 1000. Thats a mythos tome. And the idea for San loss for reading a tome is your trying to understand it (thats how you learn spells from it). Yeah. Reading won't make you crazy .

He's offering $10,000 to anyone who can disprove him. I think collectively we can prove him wrong and let Morrus have the money for server upgrades. I'll get started on proving him wrong as soon as I figure out what he's trying to say....

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

Warlock! That's a great film!

Regarding the Christian element: I was careful to say Judeo-Christian in my earlier post. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I'm looking at it from a mythological standpoint. Certainly none of this has anything to do with modern, mainstream Christianity, anymore - even less so - than voodoo has to do with Catholicism. But at its core, it has to do with very early Judeo-Christian elements. For example, Abramelin the Mage (from the 12th or 13th centuries, I believe) used what seems to be at least a variant of the tetragrammeton. But, again, I'm not trying to offend anyone or disparage their religion. If I have inadvertently caused offense, I apologize.

EDIT: By the way, if anyone can correct me on any of this, feel free to do so. I may very well be wrong. It could be I'm misreading.

I don't feel in the least bit offended, or that you are being disparaging in any way. It seems to me that we are having an off topic difference of historical opinion in a civilised manner (is this the internet? )

However, concerning early Judeo-Christianity, my point still stands. No one, Jewish or Christian, take the notion of the tetragrammeton seriously from a theological perspective. That doesn't mean to say that other belief systems, like occultism, haven't borrowed J-C terms to describe something which they believe in or practice.

To draw a parallel, 1e DnD had stats for Asmodeus and Satan, but you wouldn't call it a Christian game.

Postmodern theory explanation: On the fringes of a discourse there is slippage across the boundaries of meaning, and the tetragrammeton is one of these, however, it has never moved sufficiently into Christian discourse to justify being described as Christian.

Damn, am I an academic or what!

 

[hong]

To draw a parallel, 1e DnD had stats for Asmodeus and Satan, but you wouldn't call it a Christian game.

No, but I would call it a game with strong roots in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Similarly, if 1E had spirits of nature that were called kami, the sun and the moon as deities, and rules for achieving enlightenment via the proper rituals, I would call it a game with strong roots in the Japanese tradition of Shinto. But it doesn't, so I wouldn't.

 

[WayneLigon]

Sanity

Ive dealt with stress so i know that causes your mind to alter....but what doesnt kill you only makes you stronger...
alot of people crack under stress or pressure...but isnt there those who do better under stress or pressure?

A 45 degree angle thats not a 45 degree angle....i cant really imagine what that looks like...i can try to speculate...but what i say is SHOW ME! let me see what it looks like and i wanna see how it works...

That's the point. Such a thing is utterly impossible to show you because (according to our known laws of phyics) it cannot exist within the three dimensions we occupy. It's like something being both black and white at the same time. However the alien entities of the Mythos almost always exist mostly in other spaces and higher dimensions. When they deign to intersect with Terrestrial space they sort of 'bring along' parts of that greater reality along with them. The human mind cannot perceive those extra dimensions so it starts playing tricks on itself. Continued exposure causes the mind to tear itself apart trying to resolve all the contradictions between what it knows and can know and what reality is showing it.

 

[kengar]

I own a copy of Chaosium's CoC game (5th ed.) & the d20. I don't have my books here, but it seems to me I read something about characters not continuing to lose Sanity from the same thing. i.e.: The first flayed corpse causes Sanity loss but not the 3 that you find in the next room. From the posts here, I guess I am confused on this rule.

I would interject my two cents about character life expectancy, etc. CoC is a horror RPG not "fantasy." The characters aren't supposed to be heroes. They are normal people thrust into extremely ABNORMAL situations.

Good explanantions here on Sanity loss rationale, btw!

 

[Xeriar]

I don't feel in the least bit offended, or that you are being disparaging in any way. It seems to me that we are having an off topic difference of historical opinion in a civilised manner (is this the internet? )

However, concerning early Judeo-Christianity, my point still stands. No one, Jewish or Christian, take the notion of the tetragrammeton seriously from a theological perspective. That doesn't mean to say that other belief systems, like occultism, haven't borrowed J-C terms to describe something which they believe in or practice.

It is important to realize that the power attributed to names was a truly universal myth. The rationalization is pretty simple - you hear your name called, you respond, as you have been conditioned to do.

For some cultures, this was presented as having a secret, true name, for speaking a name gave you power over that entity. Speaking the name of a god could be thought of as blasphemous if not stated in the most respectful, pleading of tones.

The Hebrews, like many others, believed in this whole-heartedly. It's why we don't know if Yahweh or Jehoveh is the true translation, after all, and the fact that even that much still remains is a bit surprising. Many modern jews and christians still believe it innapropriate to utter the name of 'God', or even spell out 'God' and instead refer to it as 'G-d' or The LORD.

Islam, by merely calling God God, follows a similar route. Even though many may not believe the original cause for this, it's effects are still present.

This is not 'occult' really, too common for that IMO.

 

[Chroma]

The names of God...

For an excellent example of applying rational thought/ability to the realms of mystery/occult and discovering the possible horror of what can happen, try reading this short story by Arthur C. Clarke.

The Nine Billions Names of God

Enjoy!

 

[the Jester]

However, concerning early Judeo-Christianity, my point still stands. No one, Jewish or Christian, take the notion of the tetragrammeton seriously from a theological perspective. That doesn't mean to say that other belief systems, like occultism, haven't borrowed J-C terms to describe something which they believe in or practice.

Postmodern theory explanation: On the fringes of a discourse there is slippage across the boundaries of meaning, and the tetragrammeton is one of these, however, it has never moved sufficiently into Christian discourse to justify being described as Christian.

Um... be very careful before you start making statements like "No one, Jewish or Christian" does _anything_ at all.

I respectfully disagree. Lots of Jews and Christians take the tetragrammeton seriously. I know several (Jews) who do. Occultism isn't a seperate belief system, it's a part of lots of belief systems. There are occultist Christians and Jews as well as non-occultist pagans.

There are mystical traditions in Christianity and Judaism and all other real world religions. And all Christianity means is that one believes in Jesus as the son of God/savior, it doesn't mean anything more specific than that.

Not trying to pick a fight; I prolly won't even come back in to this thread, but I just had to throw in my 2 cp here... now get back on topic before a moderator closes this down!

 

[Vargo]

Yet another way of looking at it:

This metaphor was lifted from David Gerrold's The War Against the Chtorr series, basically a handbook about how to do an alien invasion the right way.

If you take a fish by the tail, and hold him just above the water, he'll suddenly realize that what he's been swimming in all along is water. But whatever you do, don't take that fish and put him back in the same tank with other fish that haven't had the same experience - they'll just swim around saying sadly under their breath, "Gee, James was just so much nicer before he started babbling about this 'water' stuff last week...'"

Sanity in our society really is more of a "common perception of reality" than any single definable trait - when somebody experiences things that alter their perception of reality, their ability to communicate those ideas to others is reduced - since the others have not shared that experience. When somebody's ability to communicate with others has been sufficiently altered due to their extended experiences with (in this case) Things That Men Were Not Meant To Know, that then they are considered "insane."

 

[Xeriar]

Yet another way of looking at it:

If you take a fish by the tail, and hold him just above the water, he'll suddenly realize that what he's been swimming in all along is water. But whatever you do, don't take that fish and put him back in the same tank with other fish that haven't had the same experience - they'll just swim around saying sadly under their breath, "Gee, James was just so much nicer before he started babbling about this 'water' stuff last week...'"

Many fish will jump out of the water on their own to catch insects (or breed, heh).

Simelarly, we routinely jump in the water, and into the skies for an untold variety of reasons. And no doubt the very idea of space was once 'incomprehensable' we now at least understand quite a bit of it.

Tetrachromats - those people with four-color vision (RGB like ours, and most others will generally have either a shift-red or shift-green - it's basically a residual effect of colorblindness) can certainly percieve the additional colors, comprehend them, and remain quite sane.

Of course, before we could actually test such an ability, tetrachromats would be thought of as odd. The same holds true for people who witnessed ball lightning, and other strange effects.