Anyone else hope the rules for taking 10 & 20 see some revision?

[Felon]

The Take 10 rule sounded pretty nifty to me when I first read it. Seemed to be a good way to avoid randomness in tasks where a competent character stands a reasonable chance of success--i.e, it was a good way to cut to the chase.

But over time, I've found that there's some side effects to taking 10 that can be problematic. For instance, two guys are climbing a wall. One takes 10 and gets a 20--exactly what's needed to succeed. The other guy only gets a 19. If there are multiple checks, the first guy will make them all, and the second almost certainly will not. That a +1 modifier makes all the difference between a 100% chance of success and a 50% chance of success.

So, I'm not sure what works best here. Maybe I'd have been happier with a "take 5" rule, so that the easiest applications would be fait accompli, but the more borderline attempts would still require a roll.

 

[DarkKestral]

The Take 10 rule sounded pretty nifty to me when I first read it. Seemed to be a good way to avoid randomness in tasks where a competent character stands a reasonable chance of success--i.e, it was a good way to cut to the chase.

But over time, I've found that there's some side effects to taking 10 that can be problematic. For instance, two guys are climbing a wall. One takes 10 and gets a 20--exactly what's needed to succeed. The other guy only gets a 19. If there are multiple checks, the first guy will make them all, and the second almost certainly will not. That a +1 modifier makes all the difference between a 100% chance of success and a 50% chance of success.

So, I'm not sure what works best here. Maybe I'd have been happier with a "take 5" rule, so that the easiest applications would be fait accompli, but the more borderline attempts would still require a roll.

Well, AFAIK, Climb is ineligible for take 10. But in general, I think Take 10 is OK, because it does eliminate a lot of randomness for routine tasks. I wouldn't mind seeing Take 1 and Take 5 options for simpler tasks, but I think that there should be a generalized Take X option where you simply succeed on a check, but take an amount of time equal a certain number times the roll you need to succeed on the check, unless you need a 21+ or are untrained in a trained-only skill/use of a skill.

 

[Treebore]

If I would allow for "Take 10" I just say they succeed, no roll. I hope "Take 20" goes away completely.

 

[MerricB]

Well, AFAIK, Climb is ineligible for take 10.

It's only ineligible if you're under pressure... say, because some orcs are chasing you.

I really like Take 10, and Climb and Swim are the cases where it gets used the most. A DC 20 wall is not easy to begin with, but a sufficiently trained character can do it with Take 10. what's sufficiently trained? A +10 bonus on Climb checks.

Take 20 is fantastic. For skills that allow rerolls (e.g. Search or strength checks to open doors), it just takes away the tedious dierolling.

Cheers!

 

[kiznit]

Take 10 and Take 20 work great! As a DM I can glance at my PC Notes and handwave all sorts of stuff that I expect PCs to notice, succeed, or fail at if we don't want to take the time to roll stuff.

"You guys take 10 while crossing the chasm. The dwarf stumbles and slips a little, but with an aid another he manages to make it."

"You want to search the altar thoroughly? Sure, you take 20, and after a couple of minutes you eventually find a small, secret compartment in the back."

"Yeah, the cleric is too weighted down to make it up the ledge, the rock just keeps crumbling and he slides back down, despite taking 20 on climbing up. What do you do?"

Stuff like the Take 10 1-point-difference problem have never come up for me. You don't Take 10 with multiple checks, so a sense of difference in skill isn't so much there. I know you can't take 10 on an Aid Another check, but in relaxed, everyday non-combat skill checking, I usually let the players do it.

 

[Slife]

If I would allow for "Take 10" I just say they succeed, no roll. I hope "Take 20" goes away completely.

Why?

 

[kiznit]

If I would allow for "Take 10" I just say they succeed, no roll. I hope "Take 20" goes away completely.

Yeah, this makes no sense to me either.

 

[Treebore]

Searching for traps, etc...

 

[GlassJaw]

The Take 10/20 rules are fine as written and work great.

My problem with them is that many people have NO CLUE how they work. I played a bunch of games at GenCon and was shocked (and appalled) at how many people either a) flat-out didn't use them when it was blatantly obvious or b) got mad when I tried to encourage people to do so.

If anything, taking 10 and 20 are a 3ed rule that is intended to speed up play.

 

[GlassJaw]

Searching for traps, etc...

Taking 20 to Search takes a LONG time but it's not against the rules.