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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KDLadage" data-source="post: 53617" data-attributes="member: 88">Hitting a couple of points fromearlier at once... Sure. I understand. And yes, in many wyas, 3e, becuase is grants so many options, will have complexities. Is 3e more complex (as far as character generation is concerned) than 1e? Sure it is. In 1e, a 10th level fighter was a 10th level fighter was a 10th level fighter.My point is that I have found ways to circumnavigate and cicumvent the complexities that are fine by me... and so, in the end, no: I do not want to return tot he old days.I see your point. I just find it one that I can live with. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I can see this, but then again, it is a problem I can live with. Sometimes people have strange combinations of skills and abilities. I have some, as a matter of fact.Look at it like this. Have you ever played Traveller? The characters in that game can die before they are done with character generation. Sometimes you get some odd results: Generalls with less retirement pay than a Second Lieutenant, for example. But I have always found these quirks to be a draw -- this is the way it is, now explain it... this is half the fun of Role Playing for me.It is obviously not so for you, however. I am sorry for that fact, but as with all things, YMMV.And from another poster to these threads... No I would not. Or I might. Maybe. Depends on the situation.Consider this. When (A)D&D was in the 1e days, there were few things you could do to customize your character. A Magic User of 13th level you knew the capabilities of. Now you do not.So... if I build an Elven Wizard, level 15 (CR 15), and give him all non-combative spells, no metamagic feats, stack his ability with his sword up to the sky (Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, etc...) -- do you give full XP for defeating this guy?So... if I build a Human Rogue, take all of the skill levels as Knowledge (this), Knowledge (that), Knowledge (the other thing), Profession (this), Profession (that), Profession (the other thing) and so on... do I give full XP for that encounter?So... if I build a Dwarven Killing Machine, stacked to the gills with enough hit points, attack bonuses and damage bonuses -- and he is defeated in round 1 via a Polymorph other spell and an unlucky save, do I give full XP for that?My point here is that CR and so on are supposed to be tools -- not defining characteristics that restrict the ability of the Game Master to make intelligent, educated choices in dealing with her/his campaign.Use thes as tools; not bindings. Let them set you free, not hold you hostage.GURPS, Champions and other point-based games use a Character-point balancing concept. This does not mean that all 100 point characters are equally powerful in all venues.Einstein, for example, is about a 200 point character in GURPS (I do not have GURPS Who's Who with me, so I cannot be precise). This does not mean that the average 100 point Fighting Machine will not mow down Einstein in a second flat, or that the 25 point bully could not beat the poor physicist to a pulp.This is the price one pays for a Character generation system that allows someone to build any kind of character under the sun.d20/3e is not quite GURPS for the flexability. But it is flexable. And the more options you have, the more effort you will need to put forth to keep things balanced. I understand. But, with choices come extra effort to use them. I don't mind having to put forth that effort -- be that to tailor the NPC's stats to fit the encounter, or the tailor the encounter to fit the NPCs stats.   OK... so I have a level 13 Wizard with an intelligence of 13... and you cannot find any uses for him other than comic relief... Sorry to hear that.Again, my point in bringing up Jamis Buck's work was not to state that his work is perfect, but that it is useful. My point in defending the Int 13 Level 13 Wizard, is that I could certainly find a few dozen, very serious uses for this guy. But that is me.If his work does not help you, then try PCGen... or wait for Master Tools... or what have you.But to the original question: I like choices. I like lots of choices. I prefer GURPS over all RPGs and if I could get more people in an RPOG group to play GURPS, I would.I like d20/3e. It is a fine game, and I have had a blast with the campaigns I am running (2) and playing in (2). The game is a vast improvement (IMVHO) over 1e and 2e -- and no, I do not want to go back.Is it more complex? In ways, yes. Character Generation has more options -- more options immediately spells greater coimplexity. Is it worth it? Yes.Play of the game is definately not more complex, as the game system itself is quite smooth. Consitant. Very clear and clean.Someone stated once that they could cover anything with a simple d6 roll in the old days. I can to. I just choose to use a d20 most of the time, so that my players don't know that I am making up a rule on the spot. After the game, I will comb the books and see if an exiting rule covers that situation. You know what? Most of the time it does, and it handles it the same way (or close) to how I did -- because the rules are consitant, most ofthe stuff I make up is pretty damn close to the real rule anyway. In 1e, it isn't like that. there was no guiding vision or underlying principle. Still, it was fun.So is 3e.And I would not go back if you paid me to.</blockquote>

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