Anyone else long for old days simplicity?

[Lord Vangarel]

This may be a silly question, but as a DM who has to create literally zillons of levelled npcs does anyone else long for previous editions simplicity.

In the 1st edition (and 2nd before all the Complete Handbooks) you knew what you where getting with say a 9th level fighter, or for that matter a whatever level anything. With the 3rd edition a 9th level fighter will have at least 9 feats (10 if human). All this takes time . . .

Don't get me wrong, pretty much everything about 3E is better than previous editions (doesn't have the nostaligic feel of 1E but probably never get that back). Am I the only one that dreams of a similar character creation system? From a player's viewpoint its great, and even fro creating major npcs, but for lots of npcs it just isn't.

One idea I've thought of is to map out character progressions, for example, suppose you wanted a great horse fighter, if its mapped out as n levels of fighter with these feats etc then it'll make the whole job easier.

Another question is I keep reading good things about Hackmaster, how does this compare to 3E in terms of character/npc creation.

 

[Tsyr]

Actualy, I don't do that.

I generaly use "mook" characters for just horde-wading... characters with a semi-arbitrary HP, AC, and BAB that present a challange to the characters.

Only characters that would warrent a name actualy get rolled up.

 

[Crothian]

It's been over a year and a half, so I'm vcomfortible enough withthe system to guess at things. So, for a new fighter I just make it up as I go. If I think he'd have spring attack and he's a situation to do it, he'll do it. I don't roll up NPCs, unless they are really important. I take the lazy man's approach to Dming, I do the least amount of work I can and still run a great game.

 

[Akunin]

Yep - I look at the "average" characters tables in the books to gauge how powerful, say, a 12th-level Rogue should be, then just "wing it" when it comes to non-named NPCs.

For "major" or "named" NPCs, I'll write up a set of notes describing their special abilities, or do an entire character sheet - depends on how much info I need.

 

[KDLadage]

Allow me to introduce you to...

...your new best friend.

JAMIS BUCK -- Come on down! We have a DM that needs your help!

In all seriousness, this site will save you a tone of trouble in the end. Do you know exactly what you are looking for? Do you only have a vague idea of what you are looking for? Either way -- not a problem.

For example, you wanted a 9th level fighter (human); here are 10 of them.

Gunnhild, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 5 in. tall); HD 9d10+9; hp 61; Init +4 (+4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 10; Attack +11/+6 melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +1; AL CE; Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 10.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 36
Skills and feats: Climb +14, Disguise +1, Hide +0, Jump +14, Listen +0, Move silently +0, Spot +0, Swim +12; Alertness, Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Endurance, Improved critical (longsword), Improved initiative, Quick draw, Weapon focus (longsword), Weapon focus (shortspear), Weapon specialization (shortspear).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Tovi, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 6 in. tall); HD 9d10+9; hp 61; Init +4 (+4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 10; Attack +13/+8 melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +3; AL LG; Str 19, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 9.

Languages Spoken: Common, Infernal.

Skill points: Ftr 48
Skills and feats: Climb +16, Handle animal +5, Hide +2, Jump +14, Listen +0, Move silently +0, Spellcraft +3, Spot +0, Swim +16; Blind-fight, Improved critical (halfspear), Improved critical (shortbow), Improved critical (handaxe), Improved initiative, Lightning reflexes, Quick draw, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (shortbow), Weapon focus (longsword).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Eindrini, male human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (6 ft., 2 in. tall); HD 9d10+18; hp 74; Init +4 (+4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 10; Attack +11/+6 melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +4; AL NE; Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 10.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 24
Skills and feats: Craft +12, Forgery +2, Hide +0, Listen +1, Move silently +0, Sense motive +3, Spot +1, Use rope +2.5; Blind-fight, Endurance, Improved critical (sap), Improved critical (glaive), Improved initiative, Point blank shot, Power attack, Quick draw, Skill focus (craft), Weapon focus (longsword).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Helga, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 9 in. tall); HD 9d10; hp 44; Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex); Attack +11/+6 melee, or +10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +3; AL LG; Str 14, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 9.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 36
Skills and feats: Craft +6, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Listen +0, Move silently +1, Open lock +1.5, Ride +11, Search +1, Spot +0, Swim +9, Use rope +5; Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Leadership, Mounted archery, Mounted combat, Point blank shot, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (halberd).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Gunnhild, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 4 in. tall); HD 9d10; hp 55; Init +0; Spd 30 ft.; AC 10; Attack +12/+7 melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +4; AL LG; Str 16, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 36
Skills and feats: Climb +13, Diplomacy +1, Handle animal +11, Hide +0, Intimidate +2, Listen +3, Move silently +0, Ride +11, Spot +3; Alertness, Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Improved critical (longsword), Mounted combat, Power attack, Quick draw, Trample, Weapon focus (quarterstaff), Weapon focus (longsword).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Ynvar, male human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 8 in. tall); HD 9d10; hp 58; Init +1 (+1 Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex); Attack +13/+8 melee, or +10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +2; AL LG; Str 18, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 9, Wis 8, Cha 15.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 24
Skills and feats: Craft +8, Forgery +0, Hide +1, Listen +1, Move silently +1, Ride +7, Spot +1, Swim +12; Alertness, Endurance, Improved critical (shortspear), Improved critical (longsword), Improved unarmed strike, Leadership, Point blank shot, Weapon focus (longbow, composite), Weapon focus (longsword), Weapon focus (quarterstaff).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Runolf, male human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 10 in. tall); HD 9d10+27; hp 81; Init +1 (+1 Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex); Attack +12/+7 melee, or +10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +0; AL CE; Str 17, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 5, Cha 10.

Languages Spoken: Common, Halfling, Terran.

Skill points: Ftr 60
Skills and feats: Appraise +7, Climb +14, Forgery +8, Heal -0.5, Hide +1, Jump +15, Listen -3, Move silently +1, Ride +12, Spot -0.5; Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Exotic weapon proficiency (axe, orc double), Leadership, Mounted combat, Power attack, Quick draw, Trample, Weapon focus (scythe), Weapon specialization (scythe).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Valgerd, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 4 in. tall); HD 9d10+9; hp 52; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +11/+6 melee, or +11/+6 ranged; SV Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +3; AL CG; Str 15, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 12.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 24
Skills and feats: Craft +11, Escape artist +5, Forgery +1, Hide +2, Listen +0, Move silently +2, Ride +6, Spot +0; Cleave, Improved critical (shortbow), Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Power attack, Quick draw, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (shortspear), Weapon focus (greatsword), Weapon specialization (shortspear).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Asgrim, male human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 2 in. tall); HD 9d10+18; hp 63; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +13/+8 melee, or +11/+6 ranged; SV Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +5; AL LG; Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 36
Skills and feats: Climb +11, Handle animal +11, Hide +2, Innuendo +6, Jump +14, Knowledge (arcana) +2, Listen +4, Move silently +2, Spot +4; Alertness, Blind-fight, Cleave, Combat reflexes, Improved initiative, Leadership, Power attack, Quick draw, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (shortbow).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

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Tosti, female human Ftr9: CR 9; Size M (5 ft., 8 in. tall); HD 9d10+18; hp 75; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +11/+6 melee, or +11/+6 ranged; SV Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +3; AL LE; Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 13.

Languages Spoken: Common, Dwarven, Gnoll, Gnome, Halfling, Ignan, Orc, Sylvan, Terran.

Skill points: Ftr 60
Skills and feats: Craft +14, Disguise +6, Handle animal +13, Hide +7, Listen +2.5, Move silently +2, Open lock +3, Perform +5.5, Speak language +6, Spot +2; Alertness, Blind-fight, Dodge, Expertise, Improved disarm, Improved unarmed strike, Leadership, Power attack, Weapon focus (shortbow).

Possessions: 12,000 gp in gear.

That took all of 30 seconds (including the cut and paste, and adding some bold into the text...)

Let's say you are looking for a Fighter/Sorcerer and you figure you want a mid-level fighter, low level sorcerer, using one of the standard PHB races... of a good alignment you figure... sure. Here are 10 of those:

Unn, female human Ftr11/Sor2: CR 13; Size M (4 ft., 10 in. tall); HD 11d10+22 + 2d4+4; hp 93; Init +3 (-1 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 9 (-1 Dex); Attack +15/+10/+5 melee, or +11/+6/+1 ranged; SV Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +8; AL LG; Str 16, Dex 9, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 15.

Languages Spoken: Common, Infernal.

Skill points: Ftr 56, Sor 8
Skills and feats: Craft +15, Handle animal +16.5, Heal +8, Hide -1, Listen +4, Move silently -1, Open lock +0, Profession +7, Ride +8, Spot +4, Swim +12; Alertness, Combat reflexes, Enlarge spell, Improved critical (longspear), Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Power attack, Quick draw, Weapon focus (greatclub), Weapon focus (trident), Weapon focus (battleaxe), Weapon focus (hammer, light).

Possessions: 35,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/5): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Prestidigitation. 1st -- Magic Missile, Sleep.

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Hrut, male human Ftr12/Sor5: CR 17; Size M (6 ft., 2 in. tall); HD 12d10+24 + 5d4+10; hp 123; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +18/+13/+8 melee, or +16/+11/+6 ranged; SV Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +8; AL NG; Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 12.

Languages Spoken: Common.

Skill points: Ftr 45, Sor 15
Skills and feats: Concentration +9, Handle animal +10, Hide +2, Jump +18, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Listen +2, Move silently +2, Profession +6, Scry +5, Spot +2, Swim +15; Alertness, Blind-fight, Cleave, Combat reflexes, Dodge, Endurance, Exotic weapon proficiency (kama), Improved initiative, Leadership, Power attack, Skill focus (jump), Weapon focus (shortbow), Weapon focus (longspear), Weapon specialization (shortbow).

Possessions: 100,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/4): 0th -- Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Resistance. 1st -- Charm Person, Feather Fall, Magic Missile, Spider Climb. 2nd -- Blur, Melf's Acid Arrow.

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Silanna, female elf (high) Ftr9/Sor4: CR 13; Size M (5 ft., 0 in. tall); HD 9d10-18 + 4d4-8; hp 48; Init +1 (+1 Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 11 (+1 Dex); Attack +14/+9/+4 melee, or +12/+7/+2 ranged; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +6; AL CG; Str 17, Dex 12, Con 7, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 17.

Languages Spoken: Common, Elven.

Skill points: Ftr 12, Sor 6
Skills and feats: Alchemy +1, Craft +4, Hide +1, Listen +3, Move silently +1, Ride +11.5, Search +2, Spot +3, Use rope +3; Alertness, Combat reflexes, Improved critical (hammer, light), Improved unarmed strike, Power attack, Quick draw, Scribe scroll, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (halberd), Weapon focus (longspear).

Possessions: 35,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/4): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Light, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic. 1st -- Burning Hands, Change Self, Identify. 2nd -- Alter Self.

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Laucilil, male elf (high) Ftr11/Sor5: CR 16; Size M (4 ft., 9 in. tall); HD 11d10 + 5d4; hp 72; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +15/+10/+5 melee, or +15/+10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +10; AL NG; Str 14, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 19.

Languages Spoken: Common, Elven.

Skill points: Ftr 28, Sor 10
Skills and feats: Climb +15, Concentration +3, Hide +2, Jump +6, Listen +5, Move silently +2, Ride +6, Search +2, Spellcraft +7, Spot +5, Swim +10; Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved critical (club), Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Mobility, Mounted combat, Power attack, Ride-by attack, Still spell, Weapon focus (greataxe), Weapon focus (lance, light).

Possessions: 77,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/5): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost. 1st -- Identify, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp. 2nd -- Rope Trick, See Invisibility.

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Peony, female halfling (lightfoot) Ftr11/Sor3: CR 14; Size S (2 ft., 8 in. tall); HD 11d10+11 + 3d4+3; hp 73; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 20 ft.; AC 13 (+2 Dex, +1 Size); Attack +16/+11/+6 melee, or +15/+10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +5; AL CG; Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 6, Cha 17.

Languages Spoken: Common, Halfling.

Skill points: Ftr 28, Sor 6
Skills and feats: Alchemy +3, Climb +5, Craft +6, Hide +6, Jump +16, Knowledge (arcana) +3, Listen +0, Move silently +4, Ride +14, Spot -2; Combat reflexes, Empower spell, Great fortitude, Improved bull rush, Improved critical (lance, light), Improved unarmed strike, Leadership, Mounted combat, Power attack, Weapon focus (sickle), Weapon focus (gauntlet, spiked).

Possessions: 45,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/6): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Read Magic. 1st -- Change Self, Sleep, Tenser's Floating Disk.

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Skamkel, male half-orc Ftr10/Sor2: CR 12; Size M (5 ft., 11 in. tall); HD 10d10 + 2d4; hp 51; Init +3 (-1 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 9 (-1 Dex); Attack +14/+9/+4 melee, or +10/+5/+0 ranged; SV Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +6; AL LG; Str 17, Dex 9, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 13.

Languages Spoken: Common, Gnoll, Infernal, Orc.

Skill points: Ftr 52, Sor 8
Skills and feats: Alchemy +7, Climb +13.5, Craft +16, Handle animal +13, Hide -1, Listen +2, Move silently +1, Pick pocket -0.5, Spot +2, Swim +12, Use rope +2; Alertness, Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Power attack, Quick draw, Weapon focus (longbow), Weapon focus (guisarme), Weapon focus (flail, heavy), Weapon focus (longsword).

Possessions: 27,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/5): 0th -- Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Light, Ray of Frost, Read Magic. 1st -- Charm Person, Magic Missile.

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Jorunn, female human Ftr10/Sor4: CR 14; Size M (5 ft., 1 in. tall); HD 10d10+20 + 4d4+8; hp 98; Init +3 (-1 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 9 (-1 Dex); Attack +15/+10/+5 melee, or +11/+6/+1 ranged; SV Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +6; AL CG; Str 16, Dex 9, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 15.

Languages Spoken: Common, Dwarven, Undercommon.

Skill points: Ftr 65, Sor 20
Skills and feats: Climb +14, Handle animal +11, Hide -1, Innuendo +4.5, Intuit direction +2, Jump +14, Listen +1, Move silently -1, Profession +6, Ride +11.5, Search +4.5, Spot +4, Swim +11; Alertness, Expertise, Improved disarm, Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Leadership, Mounted archery, Mounted combat, Silent spell, Weapon focus (flail, heavy), Weapon focus (warhammer), Weapon focus (morningstar).

Possessions: 45,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/4): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic. 1st -- Charm Person, Mage Armor, Shocking Grasp. 2nd -- Ghoul Touch.

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Wayrocket, female gnome (rock) Ftr12/Sor1: CR 13; Size S (3 ft., 2 in. tall); HD 12d10+48 + 1d4+4; hp 121; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 20 ft.; AC 13 (+2 Dex, +1 Size); Attack +14/+9/+4 melee, or +15/+10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +5; AL CG; Str 13, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 17.

Languages Spoken: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin.

Skill points: Ftr 45, Sor 3
Skills and feats: Alchemy +3, Climb +7, Concentration +5, Craft +13, Handle animal +9, Hide +6, Jump +14, Listen +3, Move silently +2, Profession +1, Speak language +1, Spot +1, Swim +8; Alertness, Ambidexterity, Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Dodge, Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Power attack, Quick draw, Track, Weapon finesse (dagger), Weapon focus (pick, heavy).

Possessions: 35,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (5/4): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Light, Read Magic. 1st -- Charm Person, Chill Touch.

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Cade, male halfling (lightfoot) Ftr12/Sor2: CR 14; Size S (3 ft., 3 in. tall); HD 12d10 + 2d4; hp 87; Init +1 (+1 Dex); Spd 20 ft.; AC 12 (+1 Dex, +1 Size); Attack +17/+12/+7 melee, or +15/+10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +9; AL CG; Str 16, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 9, Cha 13.

Languages Spoken: Common, Halfling.

Skill points: Ftr 30, Sor 4
Skills and feats: Climb +5, Concentration +4, Heal +1, Hide +5, Jump +5, Listen +1, Move silently +3, Ride +16, Spot -1, Swim +16.5; Blind-fight, Combat reflexes, Exotic weapon proficiency (crossbow, hand), Improved critical (pick, light), Improved critical (warhammer), Iron will, Mounted combat, Ride-by attack, Trample, Weapon focus (pick, heavy), Weapon focus (longsword), Weapon specialization (longsword).

Possessions: 45,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/5): 0th -- Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Read Magic. 1st -- Shield, True Strike.

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Aravust, male half-elf Ftr6/Sor4: CR 10; Size M (4 ft., 9 in. tall); HD 6d10 + 4d4; hp 51; Init +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved initiative); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +10/+5 melee, or +10/+5 ranged; SV Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +6; AL LG; Str 14, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 13.

Languages Spoken: Common, Elven, Goblin.

Skill points: Ftr 27, Sor 12
Skills and feats: Climb +8, Craft +9, Handle animal +4, Hide +2, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Listen +1, Move silently +2, Scry +8, Search +2, Spot +1, Swim +11; Blind-fight, Brew potion, Improved initiative, Improved unarmed strike, Lightning reflexes, Power attack, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon focus (warhammer).

Possessions: 16,000 gp in gear.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/3): 0th -- Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost. 1st -- Feather Fall, Shield, Summon Monster I. 2nd -- Blindness/Deafness.

Simplicity itself. I do not long for the old days, rest assured.

 

[Voneth]

This may be a silly question, but as a DM who has to create literally zillons of levelled npcs does anyone else long for previous editions simplicity.

Nope, because I eventualy found other games that were more elegant than DND, now those I miss since I've been doing 3e for over a year now.

 

[WSmith]

Yes, another nostalgic post!

I miss the simplicity too, but the good thing is today all these computer generated NPCs that can be created for you. Takes a lot of the burden off the DM.

What I miss is having a character, at least at the lower levels, who can fit on one side of loose-leaf paper. So, I put aside my Mad Irishman sheets for a sec. and tried creating some PC with just notebook paper. Well, excpet for the monk, which I like to write what the abilities do, they could fit all their info on the front. Yipee

I miss the simplicity of the feel of Classic D&D, but mechanincally 3e is much better, and still pretty simple once you get used to the system.

 

[Desdichado]

I don't miss the feel of old D&D at all, and I don't believe it to be more simple either. Characters have more options, but an individual character wasn't a simpler mechanic than previously.

Not only that, as was already pointed out here, Jamis Buck has revolutionized NPC building for DMs. With that, and the tables in the DMG, there's no excuse to be rolling all these characters and poring over feats unless you're a masochist.

Besides, the simplicity can be bad (from the point of view you're talking about.) If the players know exactly what to expect from a 9th level fighter, and you want to put them up against one, how is that a good thing exactly?

 

[mhensley]

Another question is I keep reading good things about Hackmaster, how does this compare to 3E in terms of character/npc creation.

The first (and only) character that I created using HackMaster took me over an hour to do. Its insanely complicated with many obtuse calculations required. Oh, and none of the steps are optional.

I love the attitude of HackMaster, but needless complexity is a major turn off to me.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

KDLadage,

The generators are great if you don't know quite what you want but how do they fair if you want a 5th level town guard, or the fastest route to a 4th level Order of the Bow Initiate? Also what if you want to give some thought to the process on an initial basis, for example you create a prestige class of your own and decide they will be fairly common in the world, then map out the fastest route to obtain the prestige class and decide that the majority of npcs take that route, now you want to create a 4th level prestige class from the fastest route with feats and skills variable from the prestige level? If they can do that then I'm sold. Seriously though, for truly random characters they seem great but what about ones that fit a role in the campaign?

Tysr,

Average characters are great and easy to use (I use them myself all the time - average hit points, base bab, pick a strength, dex, con, etc) but the problem comes assigning feats and skills. Some of these can have definite effects on combat (where most npcs eventually end up - either for the pcs or against the pcs) and here picking just the necessary AC, HP, etc isn't enough.


KDLadage,

As another note there appears to be a problem in at least one of those generated characters -

Tovi, female human Ftr9
Improved critical (halfspear), Improved critical (shortbow), Improved critical (handaxe),

That's 3 Improved Criticals which require a base +8 to take, 9th level fighter has base +9 so max could have would be two of them???