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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 54423" data-attributes="member: 2205">I think you don't get it.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  You can't say 3e sucks and it doesn't suck.  Make up your mind.  Are you just playing devil's advocate and arguing with every statement made, or do you actually have a cogent opinion?That's pretty rich coming from someone who's only input into this thread has been insult and disjointed comments that leave your opinion of 3e vs. 1e completely in the dark.And I said that where?  I said 1e sucked.  It's true.  It may have been revolutionary, daring, exciting and wonderful for it's time, but it is the old man of gaming, completely uncompetitive in today's market.  It sucks.  That's all I'm saying.  Please, don't put words in my mouth that I never even implied, much less said.  It doesn't do anyone any favors to do so.All of which were no more than mechanics with names.  Except for the artwork, of course, most of which I didn't like, even at the time when we didn't have way better artwork to compare it to, like we do now.It implies nothing except that the idea of D&D was a good one.  The fact that most other mechanics have been changed strongly implies that the system needed serious work and overhaul.  And debt is a silly point to bring up.  This is supposed to be an objective comparison of the systems that we've been engaged in for the last few pages of the thread.  Debt doesn't even figure into that equation.So what?  I didn't say that comment referred to you.  I put in specific words to the effect of "initiators of threads" on this subject?  Is that you?  Please, try reading before you start jumping all over stuff I never said.Try again yourself, pal.  This discussion has nothing whatsoever with 3e being a "state of the art" RPG.  It has everything to do with a comparison between 1e and 3e.  Anything else going on in the RPG hobby is irrelevant.  Relative to 1e 3e certainly is state of the art.  But I'd actually agree with you that it makes a number of compromises to it's detriment.  But that's neither here nor there, since that's not the topic of the discussion.  Unless you'd like it to be; I'm perfectly willing to change tacks here.  But don't assume I'm arguing about the merits of 3e relative to anything other than 1e until I say I'm doing so.Where's that critical thinking, then?  So far, all you've done is call people names and make vague, unqualified and undescribed statements to the effect that you think all editions of D&D are equal.  You're falling way, WAY short of your stated goal.See above.  Put your money where your wide-open mouth is.I don't see how you can make any kind of argument that someone who played 1e for years is closeminded about it.  What I'm saying is based on experience with the game buddy, not anything else.  I gave 1e years of open-minded trial.  And I find it seriously lacking relative to other systems I've played, including 3e.Insults without any description of what in the world it has to do with anything means very little.  Especially from someone who claims (very speciously) to be trying to inject "critical thinking" into the thread.  You have yet to show any "critical thinking."  You have yet to show much in the way of reading comprehension.  You have yet to make much sense.  You have however, shown that you are quite the reactionary, tossing out insults based on percieved attacks on systems that weren't even being discussed.  I will still stand by my opinion that relative to 3e, 1e sucks.  You have yet to even propose a reason why I should change that opinion, or even address it.  I question what in the world you're doing here in this thread in the first place, since you seem to have little desire to discuss the topic the rest of us were.</blockquote>

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