Anyone Have Levels for Terrain?

[dhunton]

Seriously, this is becoming an issue, or rather, it will when we really get to some of these higher levels.

Last night, we ran a challenging 15th level encounter, with an opponent who had some telekinesis. As this is a much more miniatures-based game, we used the Frostfell Rift map. This became a big issue when the beholder slid PC's off the edge of the crevasses, thereby killing them (yes, they tried a save to catch themselves, all three missed).

The terrain turned what would have been a Level 19 encounter into something much more difficult (paladin and warlord went early, limiting the healing way more than would otherwise happen).

The DMG mentions hazards, but doesn't really give levels (xp) for any sort of natural terrain hazards like the one we came across. So we didn't really have anything to base from to figure the real level of the encounter.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Discussion?

Thanks!

Debbie

 

[Zetesofos]

There is one thing in the DMG that might be of use. On page 44, under Forced Movement and Terrain, it gives a table that lists Fall Damage severity by level. It's a cross table of the characters level vs. the length of the fall that will injure, maim, or kill PC's. So, for a 15th level encounter, 40ft is painful but survivable, 70ft is survivable as long as your not bloodied, and anything past 110 ft will probably be deadly to anyone at that level.

Hope that helps.

 

[Jhaelen]

As this is a much more miniatures-based game, we used the Frostfell Rift map. This became a big issue when the beholder slid PC's off the edge of the crevasses, thereby killing them (yes, they tried a save to catch themselves, all three missed).

Errm, who says these crevasses have to be 'bottomless pits'?
In DDM 2.0 pits no longer destroy pieces failing their save. They are just dazed for a single round.

Personally, I'd simply assign an appropriate amount of damage (using the limited, high damage columns for monsters) or design the crevasses as a hazard of the appropriate level.

 

[med stud]

Seriously, this is becoming an issue, or rather, it will when we really get to some of these higher levels.

Last night, we ran a challenging 15th level encounter, with an opponent who had some telekinesis. As this is a much more miniatures-based game, we used the Frostfell Rift map. This became a big issue when the beholder slid PC's off the edge of the crevasses, thereby killing them (yes, they tried a save to catch themselves, all three missed).

The terrain turned what would have been a Level 19 encounter into something much more difficult (paladin and warlord went early, limiting the healing way more than would otherwise happen).

The DMG mentions hazards, but doesn't really give levels (xp) for any sort of natural terrain hazards like the one we came across. So we didn't really have anything to base from to figure the real level of the encounter.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Discussion?

Thanks!

Debbie

There is a chart in the DMG where there are suggested maximum altitudes of falls per level of the PCs. That's a nice place to start. Then there are some general advice in that chapter as well. It's not explicitly stated but I think you can look at the chart in page 42 of the DMG, damage/level of different attacks. If a feature deals damage you can check that chart to see if it's within the limits of the PCs' level or not.

Since you asked for it :
Thoughts
As long as you are OK with a hardcore campaign, I think the beholder encounter was alright as long as the players had a say in it. If they decided to fight a beholder on a slippery surface with crevasses around, they made a dangerous choice. If the beholder ambushed them I would say it was a bit harsh from the DM.
Suggestions
If you don't want a high risk of PCs dying, I would suggest having shallower crevasses the next time .

 

[dhunton]

Since you asked for it :
Thoughts
As long as you are OK with a hardcore campaign, I think the beholder encounter was alright as long as the players had a say in it. If they decided to fight a beholder on a slippery surface with crevasses around, they made a dangerous choice. If the beholder ambushed them I would say it was a bit harsh from the DM.
Suggestions
If you don't want a high risk of PCs dying, I would suggest having shallower crevasses the next time .

Well, it wasn't part of a campaign, so less of an issue, but still a good thought. The GM actually said that the characters would have heard stories about the pits in the beholder's lair, so we could have been better prepared, or avoided it entirely.

And he also said that the crevasses would have been about 50-100 feet, something that would be bloody painful, but with a minimal likelyhood of death.

Thanks for the places to look in the DMG, too! These are the kinds of comments I needed, guys, feel free to add on if anyone else has more to add.

 

[ryryguy]

Additionally, I think it is fair to say that an encounter is effectively more difficult if the terrain favors the enemies. This is mentioned obliquely in the section on adapting published adventures (I think) where it talks about upping difficulty levels. Changing the terrain to favor the monsters is mentioned as one way to make a lower level encounter suitable for higher level players.

I don't know if there's anything that explicitly says you should raise the encounter level and thus the XP reward, like the 3e DMG said... but it makes sense.