Anyone integrated Call of Cthulhu style magic into D&D?

[Green Knight]

I've only given it a cursory glance, but I like the idea of anyone being able to learn magic a plus for the Cthulhu system. I also like the penalties associated with magic, making it something not to be dabbled in, lightly.

Then I was thinking how could such a system be integrated into a standard D&D campaign. So how about this?

As in Call of Cthulhu, anyone can learn to cast spells. However, you pay the same penalties which you pay in Call of Cthulhu. The only exceptions are the members of the Wizard/Sorcerer classes. They can cast spells without detriment.

HOWEVER, Wizards (Not the Sorcerer, as it can't learn spells in the normal sense) can also cast spells which are beyond them. But when they do, they suffer the normal penalties.

In other words, only Wizards and Sorcerers can use magic without suffering penalty, as their training and/or inborn talent allows them to control the effects of magic. But even Wizards can fall prey to the dangers of magic which the untrained have to constantly worry about, as they can fall prey to greed in trying to learn spells which are beyond even their reach and as a result suffer the consequences.

So how does that sound to you folks? And has anyone come up with a better system of integrating the two? Remember, I just pulled this out of my ass, so it's not exactly precise, nor has it been playtested.

I bring this up because I've been watching a lot of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer lately and have been thinking how magic works in that world and how a D&D campaign can mimic that. To me, the Call of Cthulhu magic rules did a good job of fitting in the genre, as people like Giles, who isn't a spellcaster, can cast the occasional spell. Yet it also explains how someone like Willow, who is a dedicated spellcaster, can become corrupted by magic. Tara points out that Willow's taking magic to far, and she is. She's reaching for magic which is beyond her abilities, and in so doing she's paying the consequences. That's why I've been thinking about this, anyway.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I'm playing a Harn campaign (low magic, low fantasy) now utilizing mostly the core D&D rules but with some modifications. I removed all spellcasting ability from all classes. You learn and cast (and pay the penalty for so doing) just like in Call of Cthulhu. Now players are terrified to lose Sanity points and refuse to cast the minimal number of spells they know except in extreme circumstances. They might be a little more free with 'em, but losing Sanity points for seeing monsters and mangled corpses has reigned in any desire to do so. They each lost about 7-10 Sanity points in one night (game time and real time, LOL) and see their Sanity scores slipping down from the mid-40s down into the mid-30s... It has made for a very different experience and has certainly brought the mystique back to magic. That and the fact that you'll be burned as a witch if anybody sees you casting spells!

I don't recommend giving wizards or sorcerers a break. Their classes become obsolete in a game using Cthulhu magic.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I did allow PCs to take a Witch bloodline feat, which allowed them to know and cast a small number of cantrips (without any visible effect, so no dancing lights) per day at the cost of 1 Sanity point each. So far, in two games, only three cantrips have been cast!

 

[Ace]

Its kind of a wierd idea but might fit in some campaigns.

Basically it would anyone to cast extra spells if they pay the price. Hmm

I kind of like it

 

[Limper]

This one was floating around a few months ago....

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Madness! Insanity! HAHAHA!

I'm currently trying to cut and paste a whole lotta d20 goodness. Lets say I really want Mythos style (Stat Magic) magic in addition to the normal flavors how do I add it and keep a semblance of balance?

Hypothesis:

Anyone caster or not willing to learn and pay the price of these spells can learn and use them (thus not using the to DnD conversions in the back of the CoC book)

The temp Att damage as written the San damage would be an additive uncurable total with fun results kinda like madness in WOT.

Madness Reduction feat from WOT available same result ( madness rating -20 points)

Maybe a few new feats to help prolong ones career as a puppet of the Old Ones, like Mental Hardness (can be taken multiple times acts as hardness for San damage) Mental Tenacity ( Will save DC 25 for half San damage). You would still go nuts and waste a bunch of feats lingering along being a menace to yourself and others.

Am I missing anything? It looks fine to me but I'm conceited. Will post more as I get input and futz with my notes.


The Feats:

Mental Hardness
prereqs Mental Stability, Iron Will, Knowledge of 5+ Mythos spells
Benefits: Each time this feat is taken it provides 1 point mental hardness usable as DR for San damage.

Mental Tenacity
prereqs Mental Stability, Iron Will, Mental Hardness, Knowledge of 10+ Mythos spells
Benefits: Allows a Will save DC25 for half damage on remaining damage suffered to one San (this is applied after the DR from Mental Hardness)

Need to recalibrate the Madness Table from WOT such that irevocable insanity is at 99+

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

I'm working on it, but mostly as a camp-specific version of the Alienist harkening back to Spells & Magic (when the Alienist's insanity was a drawback, not a benefit). In this system, however, the Whisper Mage (as it's called) gains her knoweldge from listening to the voices of Madness Dark (as it's called) rather than from old tomes (although old tomes are handy for learning when and where is best for hearing them...).

Anyhow, should prove nice and creepy. Very wide-ranging spell list (learning the secrets of existance transcends the bounds of Arcane and Divine), plenty of madness, babbling, drooling, and all that stuff.

Delightfully horrid.

 

[gamecat]

Cthulhu magic kills me. I don't get that whole "roll up a character, he goes insane in 2 sessions, repeat ad infinitum". Same thing with ravenloft.

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

Hey, GC... New avatar? Very nice.

Ideally, the concept is that magic isn't something mortals are meant to understand or do; Doing so means learning something about the universe that our puny little human brains are severely incapable of grasping in full. The 2E Alienist had this down rather nice, although the 3E version kinda brushes over it.

Generally, by exposing yourself to such knowledge, you are overloading your senses. In addition, while you think you have learned "The Truth" of things, you have actually only learned a little sliver of that truth. Thus, something becomes clear (and thus you gain a spell) while other things become distorted due to that truth because it doesn't "fit".

In short, learn only the spells you need to; Otherwise, try to succeed without magic if at all possible.

 

[gamecat]

IMC, magic is just another facet of physics: We don't need Mystra or Shar to provide us with "Weave" or anything like that. Magic is just like light or gravity, only it is sensitive to certain combinations of movements(S), sounds(V), and items(M or F). The people in the world view magic as a set of tools, albeit hard to use tools.

As to the avatar, I had to crop and remove the "Being the adventures of a boy who's principle interests are rape, ultra-violence, and beethoven" text from the movie poster.

 

[mmadsen]

I've only given it a cursory glance, but I like the idea of anyone being able to learn magic a plus for the Cthulhu system. I also like the penalties associated with magic, making it something not to be dabbled in, lightly.

Agreed.

Then I was thinking how could such a system be integrated into a standard D&D campaign.

The easiest way to integrate it is to simply remove all spellcasting classes. "Wizards" are Experts who've paid the Sanity cost to learn a few spells. This has the pleasant side-effect of making Wizards scholars on just about every topic. It also gives an explanation for all those magical labyrinths in odd places. Mad wizards do mad things...

The only exceptions are the members of the Wizard/Sorcerer classes. They can cast spells without detriment.

If you want more magic than is practical under typical CoC rules, let wizards make a Spellcraft roll to avoid Sanity loss. This has a few interesting effects. If the roll is difficult enough (e.g. DC 15 + 2 x spell level), then wise wizards will hold off on studying and using powerful spells until they've mastered the basics. Foolish wizards, on the other hand, have been given enough rope to hang themselves. This seems like a cornerstone of the genre, and I like the way this mechanic could work.