Anyone know of a good demonologist core class?

Nifft said:
*ahem* http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=77916&page=3&pp=32 :)

Start out Warlock, then go into Summoner of the Skin. Or, start out Sorcerer. Or Wizard. Or... evil Bard! Any combo is good.

-- N

Interesting take on the Acolyte of the Skin!

What I have in mind is something along the lines of a class which provides demonic enhancements like the Acolyte/Summoner of the Skin with an additional "ritual" ability which allows the class to summon increasingly powerful demons. Rather than summoning like the arcane spells of the same name, the rituals would summon named demons allocated by the characters demon lord, (i.e. the same type of demon summoned would actually summon the same demon). Should a demon "die" the character would have to perform some form of attonement to regain this ability.

Does anyone have a feel for the appropriate demon for the appropriate class level?

Sorry to be a bit vague but I'm at work typing off the top of my head ideas. I'll give it some more considered thought tonight.
 

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Well, you'll notice that the Summoner of the Skin does get the ability to summon fiends, so that might suit your PC nicely. Personally, I think a Sorcerer / Rogue / SotSkin / Arcane Trickster could be fun.

Otherwise, what about an Evil Cleric who uses a lot of Summon Monster & Planar Ally spells?

-- N
 


There is is the mongoose title Demonology with a PrC that requires, as far as I remember, only one or two levels of Wizard/Sorcerer and focuses on Demon/Devil summoning. I liked that very much.
 

Actually, it seems like you could do something based on a bard, just changing the abilities abit. Bardic Knowledge become Demon Lore. Bardic Music abilites could be replaced by the summoning features you mention. Hmmm...right now I don't have time to work on this, but I will think some more about it and if I come up with something I will let you know.
 

OK, I appreciate that this is horribly broken from a balance point of view, but just to give you a feel for what I have in mind (and to open up the discussion), here is a version of the "Demonic Summoner".

Demonic Summoner

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil.

Hit Die: d6.

BAB/SAVES: As Wizard.

Class Skills: As Wizard.

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A demonic summoner is proficient with all simple weapons, light armour and shields (except tower shields).

Detect Good (Sp): At will, a demonic summoner can use detect good, as the spell.

Poison (Su): As a standard action, a demonic summoner can calling upon his or her demonic patron to infect an opponent with a horrible poison by making a successful melee touch attack. At 1st level, the poison deals 1d4 points of temporary Constitution damage immediately and another 1d4 points of temporary Constitution damage 1 minute later. Each instance of damage can be negated by a Fortitude save (DC 10 + demonic summoner level + Cha modifier). The amount of damage inflicted and the number of times a demonic summoner can use this ability increases with level (see table).

Ritual (Su): A demonic summoner can perform a ritual which takes 1 round to petition his or her demon lord for aid. This comes in the form of a demon which will fight on behalf of the summoner for a maximum of 1 round per level. Summoned demons cannot call other demons to their aid. A demonic summoner may call more powerful demons as he or she increases in level. A demonic summoner may only call each demon type once per day.

Demonic Familiar (Su): A demonic summoner can summon a demonic helper in a similar way to a Wizard summoning a familiar using the Improved Familiar feat.

Resistances (Ex): At 8th level, the demonic summoner gains resistance to acid/cold/electricity/fire 5. At 16th level, this resistance increases to 10.

Smite Good (Su): A demonic summoner may attempt to smite good with one normal melee attack. He or she adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per level. If the demonic summoner accidentally smites a creature that is not good, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. A demonic summoner may smite good once per day at 6th level, and one additional times per day per 6 levels gained thereafter.

Demonic Glare (Su): As Fiendish Glare from Acolyte of the Skin.

Glare of the Abyss (Su): As Glare of the Abyss from Acolyte of the Skin.

Lvl Abilities
1 - Detect good, Poison 1/day (d4), Ritual (Mane [BoVD])
2 - Darkvision 60ft
3 - Demonic Familiar (Quasit [MM1])
4 - Poison Immunity
5 - Poison 2/day (d6), Ritual (Dretch [MM1])
6 - Smite good 1/day
7 - Ritual (Rutterkin [MM1])
8 - Resistances 5
9 - Ritual (Bar-Igurra [MM1])
10 - Poison 3/day (d8)
11 - Ritual (Jovoc [MM2])
12 - Smite good 2/day
13 - Ritual (Babau [MM1])
14 - Demonic glare
15 - Poison 4/day (d10), Ritual (Vrock [MM1])
16 - Resistances 10
17 - Ritual (Bebilith [MM1])
18 - Smite good 3/day
19 - Glare of the Abyss
20 - Damage reduction 10/good [Outsider], Poison 5/day (d12)

NOTE: A demonic summoner has no spellcasting/magical abilities beyond those listed in the above table.

So the challenge is - can this concept be made into a viable class?

Cheers!
 
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Nethermancer

Nethermancers, often times when one thinks of such magicians thoughts of death, darkness, corruption, and all things dealing with demons, devils, and other foul spirits come to mind, yet as you will see this isn’t true for many of their kind. In fact quite a few nethermancers have used the arcane powers of the Heavenly Hosts and some have been able to call upon archangels, cherubim, and seraphim.

In fact the least understood and most feared statement about their craft comes from their own ranks. “Though I am made of flesh, my body is filled with magic and my soul soars through the netherworlds,”. Now when one hears the term “netherworld” one tends to think of the depths of Hell or the Abyss it self, but as you will learn that assumption is quite narrow and false.

The Orders of Nethermancy

Spirit Walkers

The Spirit Walkers are the most common class of nethermancer, choosing neither to focus on the sacred or the profane but instead concisely using them both in a balance.
If there is one penalty they do suffer when working with nethermancy it is that they are required to cast as many Infernal spells as they do Celestial or Enochian spells a day.
They must be morally neutral.

Diabolists, Daemonologists and Demonologists

These fiendish mages are considered to be mere aberrations and severe exceptions to the rule. In addition to the dark powers they use, they’re known to perform human sacrifices, varying with the alignment of the spirits they serve. (An example: to use greater demonic arcane spells [not necessarily the summoning ones] a demonologist may bind and slaughter someone whom they have befriended and in such a way as to cover them self with their victim’s blood [note some demons prefer mere torture]. While a daemon prefers indirect sacrifice [in this case depraved indifference, cutting corners to save money and risking peoples lives, and gross negligence]. Devils however, prefer oppression, tyranny, and legalized state sponsored murder or torture [such as the Holocaust or Stalin’s Purges].) They must be evil and can not cast non-summoning Enochian spells.

Enochians: Celestial magicians

Enochians or light nethermancers are the good aligned answer to the Diabolists and other Dark magicians. The powers they use (in addition to necromancy and shadow magic) are those of light and purification. Unlike Diabolists and Demonologists Enochians perform acts mercy and healing and are well loved by those whom know them the most (if the people who know them are good). Lawful Goods would fuel their powers through vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to superiors. Neutral Goods through caring for those who got caught in the middle of a fight or in some cases a war. Chaotic Goods fuel their celestial powers through acts of rebellion and satire against corrupt politicians and tyrants, through founding charities with their own money, or advancing scientific knowledge for good purposes. A Chaotic Good may make a profit off of their good works but only if they do so publicly and honestly.

Alignment: Any

Religion: any

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills
The nethermancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill)
are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int),
Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession
(Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills for
skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

All of the following are class features of the nethermancer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Nethermancers are proficient with
the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and
quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield.
Armor of any type interferes with a nethermancer's movements,
which can cause her spells with somatic components to
fail.

Spells: A nethermancer casts arcane spells which are drawn from the
sorcerer/ wizard spell list. A nethermancer must choose and prepare
his or her arcane spells ahead of time (see below).
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an
Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level.
The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a nethermancer's
arcane spells is 10 + the spell level + the nethermancer's Intelligence
modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a nethermancer can cast only a certain
number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base
daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Nethermancer. In
addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a
high Intelligence score.
Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a Nethermancer may know any number
of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells
ahead of time by getting a good night's sleep and spending
1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the
nethermancer decides which spells to prepare.


Bonus Languages: A nethermancer may substitute any language or the netherworlds (such as Infernal or Celestial) for one of the bonus languages available to the character because
of her race.

Familiar: A nethermancer can obtain a familiar but not in exactly the same
manner as a sorcerer can. A nethermantic familiar can come in the form of an awakened animal or a spirit of the netherworlds (in other words, an Outsider or incorporrial Undead).
The familiar can start out with a Challenge Rating no greater than the level of the nethermancer.

Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, a nethermancer gains Scribe Scroll as a
bonus feat.

Spellbooks: A nethermancer must study her spellbook each day to
prepare her arcane spells. She cannot prepare any arcane spell not
recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which
all nethermancer can prepare from memory.
A nethermancer begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-
level nethermancer arcane spells (except those from her prohibited
school or schools, if any; see Schools of Magic,
below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For
each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the
spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your
choice. At each new nethermancer level, she gains two new
spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based
on her new nethermancer level) for her spellbook. At any time,
a nethermancer can also add spells found in other wizards'
spellbooks to her own.

Schools of Magic:
Nethermancers may cast spells from the schools of Conjuration, Necromancy, Abjuration, Divination up to third level, any spell with the Shadow or Light sub-schools (wether it's from Illusion, Evocation, Alteration), Alteration spells that deal with the spirit and transportation, and enchantment up to sixth level.

Table: The Nethermancer
Base Attack Fort Ref Will ---------- Spells per Day ---------

Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Summon familiar,
Scribe Scroll 3 1 - - - - - - - -
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 4 2 - - - - - - - -
3rd +1 +3 +1 +3 4 2 1 - - - - - - -
4th +2 +4 +1 +4 Astral sight 4 3 2 - - - - - - -
5th +2 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat 4 3 2 1 - - - - - -
6th +3 +5 +2 +5 4 3 3 2 - - - - - -
7th +3 +5 +2 +5 Frighten, Taunt 4 4 3 2 1 - - - - -
8th +4 +6 +2 +6 4 4 3 3 2 - - - - -
9th +4 +6 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 - - - -
10th +5 +7 +3 +7 Animal Possession, 4 4 4 3 3 2 - - - -
or Channeling
11th +5 +7 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 - - -
12th +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 - - -
13th +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 Spirit Hold 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 - -
14th +7/+2 +9 +4 +9 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 - -
15th +7/+2 +9 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 -
16th +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 Spirit Talk 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 -
17th +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Life Sight, Spirit Dodge 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Orbiting Spy, 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Arcane Mutterings, Astral Pocket

If you want to understand what these nethermantic powers are, read the Earthdawn rule books and look up the nethermancer talents. Also for those who may be upset by the fact that I haven't mentioned any powers greater than Astral Pocket wait until my epic nethermancer post. Also wait for the post that lists the times per day and mechanics for the currently mentioned powers.
 
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The Great Bear King said:
Spells: A nethermancer also casts divine spells, which are drawn from the
various domain spell lists (I'm using the Domains as Spheres variant).
He or she may have at most four domains. To or cast a spell, a nethermancer must have a Wisdom
score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty
Class for a saving throw against a nethermancer's spell is 10 +
the spell level + the cleric's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a nethermancer can cast only a certain
number of spells of each spell level per day. His base
daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Cleric.
Your nethermancer can cast arcane and divine spells. This class is like a mystic theurge at level one.

The Great Bear King said:
Familiar: A nethermancer can obtain a familiar but not in exactly the same
manner as a sorcerer can. A nethermantic familiar can come in the form of an awakened animal or a spirit of the netherworlds (in other words, an Outsider or incorporrial Undead).
The familiar can start out with a Challenge Rating no greater than the level of the nethermancer.
At level one an outsider animal with CR 1 ? This familiar is better than a familiar a wizard or sorcerer recieves.

The Great Bear King said:
Schools of Magic:
Nethermancers may cast spells from the schools of Conjuration, Necromancy, Abjuration, Divination up to third level, any spell with the Shadow or Light sub-schools, and enchantment up to sixth level.
A nethermancer can not cast a spell of level 4+ from four of the schools of magic?
How about casting spells from the schools: transmutation, illusion, evocation? Are these schools prohibited?

Your nethermancer can cast spells like a full cleric and wizard and he also gains nice abilities. This core class is overpowered.
 


Erekose said:
OK, I appreciate that this is horribly broken from a balance point of view, but just to give you a feel for what I have in mind (and to open up the discussion), here is a version of the "Demonic Summoner".

Demonic Summoner

Your core class looks like a half-fiend conjurer.
Have you looked at the half-fiend template in level progression
If you use a half-fiend conjurer you will loose: hit points, armor proficiency, detect good, demonic glare, glare of the Abyss.
If your half-fiend conjurer takes the Acolytes of the Skin prc he will get demonic glare and glare of the Abyss.
 

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