Anyone play with alternative dice?

[Chris Tavares]

Thanks!

I've been playing with modeling clay for over an hour trying to figure out the d5. There's no way the gamescience one would work unless the sides with the rectangles had numbers on the edges the same way the d4 has numbers on it's edges. So the side with the 5 (triangle) and the opposite side (1?) would be easy to read, but the others you'd have to figure out which numbers were facing in which direction. Unless I'm completely daft!

Building a d5 isn't quite as obvious as you thought, eh?

I have both a d5 and a d7. The way they're labelled is that it's the corner facing up that's the number rolled. On a d5, if you roll a 1 or 5 then that face is up, no problem, as you said. If you roll something else, you read the number at the top point - the corner that's facing up.

On the d5, the faces are small enough that the only thing to do was label them with numbers on the side. On the d7 the corners have pips on them, so it really is the corner that's got the number on it.

Here's a picture of the d7.

 

[babomb]

This is completely subjective. To me, the numbers 5, 9, and 7 are just as obvious as the numbers 4, 6, and 8. The d4 would never have worked if some bright person hadn't thought out that arrangement of putting the numbers on the edges. Yet nobody holds a patent on the d4.

What's patented is not the idea of a d5 (which is obvious), but the particular design of d5 (which is not, IMO; unlike the "standard" dice, not all of the sides are the same). Thus, if you can come up with a different design of d5, that would NOT be covered by the patent (but IANAL). A gem-style d5 wouldn't be covered, for example (but it would be covered under the gem-style dice patent). The patents for these sorts of things are pretty specific on certain points, so if you made a design that did not fit those points, it MIGHT be okay. You'll have to consult a lawyer if you're really serious about this.

Also, I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but patents expire after a period of time, usually 20 years.

Thanks for the advice, babomb, you're "dabomb". Get it?

Awesome.

 

[Dimwhit]

From the Website
Shaped like a triangle with additional thickness, this 5-sided wonder has been precision-crafted, hand-numbered, and tested over 10,000 rolls for randomness, with NO side coming up more than 20% of the time. Truly amazing!

So...what, each number came up EXACTLY 2000 times out of the 10,000 rolls??

 

[Tuzenbach]

So...what, each number came up EXACTLY 2000 times out of the 10,000 rolls??

Ew! Good point!

Well, I've pretty much got down the 7 & 9. Now it's only a matter of the 3 & 11. Oh yeah, I'll also need a ton of cash and a bit of business know-how! lol

 

[DaveStebbins]

I just want to confirm that Babomb is correct. A patent doesn't protect an idea, just a specific implementation of that idea. If you can achieve the same end by different means, you should be fine. So, as for the dice, you can make and sell d5s, just not the d5 design covered by the patent.


For the record, I am an engineer, not a patent attorney.

 

[DonaldRumsfeldsTofu]

I am not a lawyer, and I know nothing but patent laws, but I'm not sure about the ethics of holding a patent on polyhedrons. The D5 is especially annoying, considering all it is is a pyramid, and if that isn't an ancient geometric shape, I don't know what is.

 

[Len]

It's not a patent on a polyhedron, it's a patent on the idea of making a d5 from a particular polyhedron with numbers printed on it. If ancient folks had d5's like that, then it's not patentable now.

 

[thalmin]

I am not a lawyer, and I know nothing but patent laws, but I'm not sure about the ethics of holding a patent on polyhedrons. The D5 is especially annoying, considering all it is is a pyramid, and if that isn't an ancient geometric shape, I don't know what is.

Gamescience's d5 is not a pyramid.

 

[Umbran]

You mean a pentagon? Because in the case of 3D figures, such a shape would require the use of curved faces. Otherwise, it's mathematically impossible.

One can take the simple route of making a pentagonal prism with numbered sides. If you're worried about the ends, you taper them to a rounded point so the die cannot land on them. Voila, on 5-sided die.

This die would not have the same "cool factor", and might be more prone to cheating by knowing how to roll the thing.

As a general note - you won't come up with a fair odd-sided die by playing with a lump of clay. To make it fair requires some pretty delicate balancing of sizes and shapes that you won't get without some interesting math.

 

[Woas]

Heres how you make a d3, 5, 11, 27, any number:

Make a spinner, like the one you find in the games such as: Twister® and Game of LIFE, The®. Hurray