Anyone run campaigns with "less than good" characters?

[Mortanis]

My last campaign ran 2 years, and the part was comprised of Good Characters. Paladins, clerics, and the like. The players wanted to attempt to try a "Good" campaign, where their motivation was helping and doing good. usually that's not the inclination of these players.

So, after 2 years, the players decided on a break and wanted to play characters that were on the shady-side of things. Thieves, ruffians, blackmailers, etc. Most typical response was "With my good character when the smug noble says something to me i have to laugh it off. I want to be able to deck him or break his arm".

They all rolled up characters and are ready to go next session. I realized today, though, that all my campaigns over the last 10 years were "good" oriented. I could count on running a scenario and having the players get interested for fame, notoriety, and the ability to help people out.

These characters will have no such motivation. they won't care to save the kidnapped child from the orcs or save the world from the uber-lich-king-guy-dude. I suppose money will be a high motivator, but eventualy bribing the characters into scenarios will get boring for both sides. Especially since they plan on playing shady characters that will probably have a bad rep fairly quick. No one's going to want to hire them to rescue kidnapped kids if they're wanted criminals.

I guess this'll be a good role playing opportunity for both sides. Anyone have any comments or pointers they'd like to share? My players are a great bunch of Role Players, but as a DM i should have some ideas to pull out of my bag.

 

[jarlaxlecq]

you might want to thumb through the Book of vile Darkness, might give you some motives to get the PCs to do stuff, even if it is pretty twisted.

 

[Bastoche]

Instead of money, bribe them with power. Works muuuuuuch better. Money is but one particular case of a quest for power. World domination is nice too.

 

[Utrecht]

It would help a little bit if you could tell us the alignments being used by the party.....

However, I have found that playing and running non-good players are no more difficult than good players - given good character backgrounds. These backgrounds provide the motivations needed to get the campaign started - and once started, the players are my idea factories.

Personally, I find the Chaotic Elements - CN and CE the hardest to both Role-Play and to DM.

LN and LE are pretty easy - especially if you place them in the context of a controlling organization like a church, group or government. They get orders and the follow them.

IMC I play a LN Monk who also happens to be a lawyer - his cohort is a NE sorcerer - the only non good members of the entire party. Thus when ever we agree to do something - save the world, rescue a princess, he asks to have a contract drawn up - and once he gives his word, it stays given. He then fulfills the contract - or if the contract is broken - or its applying conditions are violated, he stops the party and tells them that they need to find a new mission - or at least convince him why they should continue - It is a blast and makes for great ethical debates - especially with the NG Cleric of Pelor......

 

[PowerWordDumb]

As you've realized, you can't build adventures that hook the character's basic desire to do good, and doing things for money gets old quick. The hunt for raw power can be fun, but gets to feel a little too much like climbing the ladder just to climb the ladder.

In our group what worked well was making it personal. Have some organization or individuals cross the party in such a way that they have a grudge to last all of eternity. You've never seen single-minded ruthlessness like that of an evil party out for revenge. They'll hunt the big bad good guy (BBGG? New acronym?) with a single-mindedness that puts to shame any group of paladins hunting down the BBEG in most campaigns.

Sure, if they're of the chaotic variety they may get side-tracked a lot chasing down other small insults or personal motivations, but the freedom of being not only able but encouraged to strike back hard at people who anger you is a wonderful realization for most first-time evil players, and tends to keep things relatively on track.

In our case, we not only got into a vendetta with the rulership of a good kingdom, leading to assassination plots and manipulation of the order of succession, but interfered in the political aims of the local churches, started a major war, crippled the effectiveness of the armies of the church & kingdom we were peeved with, bargained with evil dragons and northern barbarians to enter the fray unexpectedly, broke up the alliance which had pulled the dwarven kingdoms into the fray on the side of the good kingdom, and many many more plot twists. It was a fun, sprawling campaign that I'd proudly put up against any good-aligned campaign.

Evil can be a lot of fun beyond the "I can punch the peasant in the face until he gives me a good price" level. You can have just as epic a campaign as you can with good characters - it's slightly trickier finding the right motivations for the characters, but that's a challenge to be overcome, not a problem.

 

[Mortanis]

I'm not sure of all their alignments. I know there's one CN in there. No CE, as they all feel it's too difficult to accurately roleplay.

Power. That would perfectly appeal to 2 of the party members for sure above all else. Working that into useable plots and dungeon crawls is another matter.

This is going to take some thought. I have a feeling this will be a thoroughly enjoyable campaign for all if I can find my groove as the DM and keep it from getting monotonous and repetative.

 

[Voadam]

Evil characters are generally motivated by lust for power, greed, fear, and revenge. Sacking bad guys and taking their stuff is not a problem.

 

[welby]

Have a more powerful shady npc take an interest in the party. Have him promise power or even blackmail them in exchange for services.

Or, have a group of paladins chase after them because of their evil tendencies. Your players could then get involved in quests to undermine the power of this group. Raiding their keeps and destroying thier foodstores. Killing innocents of a village to draw them out, only to ambush them on the road to the village. Destroying holy artifacts before a questing paladin can claim them for himself. The list could go on forever.

Just gotta find out what motivates your players. I would also add, that you might want to stronly enforce the concept that actions have consequences. Sure, you players might want to slap the noble around for being rude, but the invisible wizard he pays to look after him might not think that was very nice.

Make them learn the lesson early, or you might have players running around doing whatever they feel like, and they'll blame you when you try to stop it.

 

[Psiblade]

I have never had much luck with evil campaigns. I have good memories of all neutral moral campaigns thou. Groups seeking fame, money, magic, and power can work together pretty well. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


-Psiblade

 

[PowerWordDumb]

I know there's one CN in there. No CE, as they all feel it's too difficult to accurately roleplay.

Q: What do you call a CN character?
A: A CE character without the strength of his convictions.

It's an unfair generalization, but it's more often true than not. I find in many of the games I've participated in, the players of CN characters are often taking the lazy way out - playing the alignment they feel lets them do anything for any reason (not so) without any of the ramifications of outright declaring yourself evil. It's rare to find anyoen who can properly play a CN character, so I hope your players do have it nailed. It's a joy to behold someone properly playing the alignment.

Personally I find CE far easier to roleplay - but maybe that's a personality thing, I'll grant.