Anyone run campaigns with "less than good" characters?

[jarlaxlecq]

"Have a more powerful shady npc take an interest in the party. Have him promise power or even blackmail them in exchange for services. "


I was thinking the same thing, watch the movie "THE USUAL SUSPECTS" and then apply it to a D&D world. no one thats good, a mastermind pulling strings etc. its all good stuff

 

[Trickstergod]

Well, a few things.

Non-Good doesn't mean they can't have good goals. It just means that often enough, the ends might justify the means. Whereas a good party might not outright kill the evil noble who runs his nation like a tyrant, a good motivated, but neutral (or even evil) party might sneak into his manor, and kill him in his sleep, without the slightest hesitation. Hypocrites also make for decent neutrally aligned individuals; they want people to act good, and encourage it, but often fail at practicing what they preach.

As stated, it mainly comes down to how your players plan to act. Perhaps they might play heroes, ultimately, but just want to act without some of the restrictions being good entails. Or, then again, as it sounds, they might just be a bunch of shady SOBs. In which case, goals likely shouldn't center around kidnappings, or saving the innocent, or what have you. Goals should center more around, depending on how the group works out: Assassinations, quelling dissidents and rebels in a nation (for a more Lawful group, probably), working as a group of mercenaries (which is really what most adventurers are, anyway, just that in this case, they admit to it) - helping out villages for gold, hiring themselves out to nobles and the like. No one may hire them to save kidnapped kids, but they'll be looked upon for many other things, all of which would be a lot more common. People with scruples are the least likely to be hired out; folk with a bad reputation, who aren't going to refuse something based on moral reasons, are more likely to see a lot more business.

Personal goals also help. Perhaps one is a dispossessed noble looking to get back his throne. Another, a zealot of a priest willing to do anything in the name of his god.

There's a number of ways it could work. Hopefully, something in my little schpiel has some use.

 

[Mortanis]

Thankfully all my players, even the ones new to the game, are GREAT roleplayers. Playing characters on the other side of the law wont degenerate into mindless looting, stealing and beatings. I know one will plan for world domination shortly.

PowerWordDumb - Some very good thoughts. I never would have thought of having something like a Paladin become the proverbial "Bad Guy" to my party. Worlds of possibilties there.

I think within the first few weeks the players desires and strengths will become evident in game and i'll be able to more completely custom tailor the campaign to their gaming styles.

Keep the thoughts coming, all! Very much appreciated and useful!

 

[Emiricol]

I am in the same position My advice: get the PC's EGO or his WALLET involved. Pride and money are the driving forces you can use

 

[Voadam]

PowerWordDumb - Some very good thoughts. I never would have thought of having something like a Paladin become the proverbial "Bad Guy" to my party. Worlds of possibilties there.

!

Paladins and religious zealots can be a real pain to deal with, particularly when you are not considered one of the good guys. Great adversarial potential there if there is religious conflicts.

 

[Wombat]

Over the years I have run a lot of campaigns with "Less Than Good" characters, both D&D and non-D&D.

I remember a particularly succesful Star Trek campaign (pre-TNG) where all the characters were Klingons (back in the day when they were all EVIL). Started out with 6 PCs; at the end of 12 sessions, there was 1 PC, and he had been promoted to the captain's chair by attrition... Each of the characters was given some goals and dirt on the other players. They were given choices as to how closely they wanted to cooperate on missions, but in the end they moved towards a combination of covert assassination and open hostility. It was in interesting exercise.

It is actually pretty easy to motivate a non-Good group -- some want money, some want power, all of them Really Want Something. Equally they are all usually Really Worried About Something. If they group is to stick together (which quite often is actually harder to do in a Not Good group than with a Good group) they need to put aside some immediate gratification and hostility for longer term goals.

What goals do they have? Is it just wealth? Then dangle money and gems in front of them with every adventure. Power? Hey, magical dingii are easy to place and sometimes local power-brokers can be brought down and/or co-opted. Violence? You'd be surprised what a desire this can be in players; many of them want to do the "EVIL Party Thang" because they want to blow off frustrations and just kill people.

But equally, what is your motivation as GM? Are you going to allow them to be Non-Good or are you going to try and whip them back around to being Good? If the former, how big do you plan to make the consequences for their actions? Maybe there will be a Good Party sent out to kill them or a Noble Dragon decides they are just too much of a distraction; alternately, maybe the whole district is just fearful of the party and they gain a lot of power. If the latter, will your players welcome this? Remember, they want to be Non-Good, so forcing them back towards Good might not go over well, but they still might like being confronted with the consequences of some of their actions just so they can keep in character.

So, lots of options.

Good luck any way around -- Non-Good games can be fun. They can also easily spill over into cartoonishness if you are not careful.

 

[Dirigible]

Be prepared. Evil/unscrupolous characters can do plot U-turns so quick they'll leave you spinning.

For example, a character I was GMing was kidnapped by an insane ulitharid, who brutally tortured him, and vivisected several of his companions in front of his eyes.

After escaping, the BBEG would occasisonally appear and say 'mwah-ha-ha, come with me an I will unlock awesome power from within you for both of us mwah-ha-ha'

After only the second appearence, much to my suprise, the PC said 'sure !" and went with the BBEG. Needless to say, his former party members that had survived the BBEG's tender loving torture were not entirely pleased with his choice.

Motivation can be either tricky or easy. The character mentioned above is motivated by lust for power, which he uses to further his primary goal of killing everything he defines as 'monsters'.

Come to think of it, most of the evil/unscrup cahracter' I've played have been motivated by power, too. Moral of the story : make sure the players work out good goals and motivations for themselves

The old adage 'make it personal' is a good way to go. Kidnap their families, rain terror on their homelands (good for LE patriots).

If they're powerful enough, make the good guys come to the pleading for help.

"Please, Sir Viledoom the Unspeakable, you are the only one who can stop the Demiliche Nastypants from collapsing the prime material into the nearest black hole !"
"Hm. What's in it for me?"
"...you get to live?"
"Ah. Okay, but I ant the princess, eight metrica buttloads of treasure, and.... your head on a platter"

Good stuff

 

[Desdichado]

I always run games with "less than good" characters, regardless of what the character sheets say, if you know what I mean.

 

[Zappo]

I have lots of experience in running games with non-good characters, and I must say that finding motivation isn't difficult at all. For the first few times, just use money or power, or pick something from the characters' background if they have a decent one.

But after that, the PCs will start generating hooks on their own. Any evil character worth his salt is going to be gathering enemies at an impressive rate, certainly faster than he can throw them into scorpion pits. An enemy, naturally, can be the source of any number of hooks. They are going to accumulate dirty secrets as well; they are good hooks as well.

More than that, evil characters tend to have plots and agendas. While many good characters wait for evil to become manifest, and then act to oppose it, evil and neutral characters actively try to gain power. A previously-impossible-to-obtain piece of their plan to world domination is going to be a pretty good hook.

 

[Trainz]

I always run games with "less than good" characters, regardless of what the character sheets say, if you know what I mean.

No, actually I don't...

Care to expand ?

I have ran a few absolutely evil campaigns, and it was always a blast. In some, it finished with the players finally meeting a band of good-aligned NPC's that sent them straight to hell. It was fun to make them experience the other side of the medal.

In one, I ran a solo adventure with some kind of evil fighter-rogue PC. Two interesting moments:

1- After slaughtering a caravan on the road, a platoon of Purple Dragons (Cormireean knights), after understanding what he did, drew their swords and charged him yelling "FOR CORMYR !" to which he grinned, drew his rapier, and charged them back yelling "FOR FUN !"

2- He encountered a bronze dragon, which would have been a cakewalk for him, but he decided to swallow a potion of speed (2nd Ed.), so he rolled his System Shock roll because of the one year aging: 00. Quack. End of character, nobody present to help him, end of adventure.

Being evil in a solo adventure can have it's drawbacks !